Hurley's Gold

Federal Subsidies for Oil & Gas

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  • Shady

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    The thing is, we do need cleaner alternate fuel sources for various energy needs. Problem is, we are very dependent and clearly aligned with oil and gas being a primary source for those energy needs.

    But this can't, or won't happen overnight, or even over just a few years. It's just not realistic, or even feasible to do. Not even sure if wind or solar power would be the way to go either, considering how much real estate would be needed to farm them into viable energy sources for the masses.

    I think nuclear energy is a fuel source that needs to be expanded and considered as well. But there also needs to be a way of safely disposing of the waste material when it needs to be replaced as well.

    I think there should be incentives, rather than penalizing various engine manufacturers to produce more efficient engines for consumers. In lots of ways, I think the EPA sets emission standards and regulations that are not very realistic for manufacturers to meet. I know some years ago, that they imposed stiffer penalties on diesel engines that were unrealistic and had many of them scrambling to come up with engines that could meet the standards they set. I believe they are still trying to play catch up with those standards.

    Yes, we need cleaner energy sources, but at the present time, we still need oil and gas production, and the jobs they provide, and support indirectly. My brother's shop isn't directly involved with the oil and gas industry, but it came to a screeching halt and ended, it would put a heavy crimp on his business' income every year. Possibly from 30% to 35% of his yearly business is from several various companies in the oil and gas industry that he does business with.

    All of these socialists crying for the New Green Deal, are idiots that aren't grounded in reality or facts.


    Look at every thing made of ABS Plastic. Guess what ABS plastic is made if <if you cant its made from natural gas or oil as part of its chemical compound> yes there are plant alternatives but the cost of plant based is astronomical.

    Plastic POLYmers are made from building block MONOmers. The naturally occurring monomers (feedstocks ) can be derived from plants, coal, natural gas or oil.

    Bio-based plastics from plants are promoted as better for the environment because of their renewable sources vis-a-vis types of plastic made from non-renewable petroleum-based fossil fuels. The giant food companies quickly realized “gen 1” bioplastics would skyrocket their raw material costs.. Just as ethanol increased prices for other crops, if more land is used for plastic feedstocks, the price of other crops would increase.
    Hurley's Gold
     

    Axxe55

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    Look at every thing made of ABS Plastic. Guess what ABS plastic is made if <if you cant its made from natural gas or oil as part of its chemical compound> yes there are plant alternatives but the cost of plant based is astronomical.

    Plastic POLYmers are made from building block MONOmers. The naturally occurring monomers (feedstocks ) can be derived from plants, coal, natural gas or oil.

    Bio-based plastics from plants are promoted as better for the environment because of their renewable sources vis-a-vis types of plastic made from non-renewable petroleum-based fossil fuels. The giant food companies quickly realized “gen 1” bioplastics would skyrocket their raw material costs.. Just as ethanol increased prices for other crops, if more land is used for plastic feedstocks, the price of other crops would increase.

    Excellent points. I knew lots of things could be based off plants, but didn't know the costs would be that much higher.

    The list of products we use every day made from petroleum is staggering.
     

    Jwr1221

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    I was thinking maybe he was talking about RIN credits? The subsidy that the federal government uses to drive the production and use of renewable fuels...
     

    F350-6

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    The list of products we use every day made from petroleum is staggering.

    Yes it is. That's why they can't kill the oil industry. It's not about the cars on the road. It's about the lifestyle we live with all the other products produced that don't involve the energy industry.

    And if you think plant based alternatives are expensive now, wait till the farmers have to convert over to battery powered tractors that have to shut down and be re-charged all the time mid-harvest.
     

    MacZC7

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    I don’t think people actually realize how clean oil and gas production is now. I am in the middle of it a majority of the month and have been for a decade so I’m not just speculating. I’m sure there are quite a few on here that have been in it longer...
    The earth releases so much natural gas and oil that what man produces looks like a fart in the wind. Research it...
     

    Axxe55

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    I don’g think people actually realize how clean oil and gas production is now. I am in the middle of it a majority of the month and have been for a decade so I’m not just speculating. I’m sure there are quite a few on here that have been in it longer...

    I had been around the oil and gas industry, directly and indirectly for close to thirty years and it's lightyears ahead of what I was seeing back in the late 1970's! Huge difference!
     

    MacZC7

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    I had been around the oil and gas industry, directly and indirectly for close to thirty years and it's lightyears ahead of what I was seeing back in the late 1970's! Huge difference!
    There are oil and natural gas releases from the ocean floor constantly. Oil is nasty stuff but it is made in the earth and released n volumes that dwarf what man actually emits while producing it. I’m not claiming we are having zero effect on the climate or environment but we give ourselves way too much credit. Man will be long gone and the earth will still be here long after. I think there are a lot more things we could focus on like recycling and not wasting so much. People are terribly wasteful and we are all guilty just some more than others. We create a lot of unnecessary waste every day and I guarantee it has a much more negative effect on the environment than oil and gas production and consumption...just think about it.
     

    Axxe55

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    There are oil and natural gas releases from the ocean floor constantly. Oil is nasty stuff but it is made in the earth and released n volumes that dwarf what man actually emits while producing it. I’m not claiming we are having zero effect on the climate or environment but we give ourselves way too much credit. Man will be long gone and the earth will still be here long after. I think there are a lot more things we could focus on like recycling and not wasting so much. People are terribly wasteful and we are all guilty just some more than others. We create a lot of unnecessary waste every day and I guarantee it has a much more negative effect on the environment than oil and gas production and consumption...just think about it.

    Totally agree. These idiots pushing this Green Deal nonsense, think that doing away with oil and gas is somehow, is going to automatically clean up the earth and environment! Idiots.

    Yes, we need to clean things up, but eliminating oil and gas production isn't going to lead to the changes they think they would.

    But I guess when your head in not grounded in reality, I guess you can think such silliness.
     

    MacZC7

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    Totally agree. These idiots pushing this Green Deal nonsense, think that doing away with oil and gas is somehow, is going to automatically clean up the earth and environment! Idiots.

    Yes, we need to clean things up, but eliminating oil and gas production isn't going to lead to the changes they think they would.

    But I guess when your head in not grounded in reality, I guess you can think such silliness.
    Damn we actually have something in common!
    I’m all for supplemental green energy but from what I’ve seen and researched solar panels, wind generators etc are a huge production and create a lot more waste than they produce. I had a bunch of wells I took care of for 4 years in Portland that were directly under a bunch of those wind towers. I had a lot if time to watch them being built, serviced and torn down. We all see the parts being hauled via big rigs on the roads and it takes a crane to erect. None of that process would be possible without petroleum. Have you seen the huge solar fields that cover many acres of land? What does it take to manufacture and set up those fields? What happens to them after they are retired? Lots to think about...
     

    Axxe55

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    Damn we actually have something in common!
    I’m all for supplemental green energy but from what I’ve seen and researched solar panels, wind generators etc are a huge production and create a lot more waste than they produce. I had a bunch of wells I took care of for 4 years in Portland that were directly under a bunch of those wind towers. I had a lot if time to watch them being built, serviced and torn down. We all see the parts being hauled via big rigs on the roads and it takes a crane to erect. None of that process would be possible without petroleum. Have you seen the huge solar fields that cover many acres of land? What does it take to manufacture and set up those fields? What happens to them after they are retired? Lots to think about...

    Just think of the acreage needed for solar and wind energy that would be needed. Land that in some ways couldn't be used for much anything else that I can think of. Especially solar panels. What about days when there is little to no wind? Or days when it's cloudy or raining for days at a time?

    I think we could in time transition to other energy sources, and take the strain off being so dependent upon petroleum, but I think we are still quite some years away from that. I think other alternate energy sources need to be studied and explored too.

    In all honesty, I think these were things we should have been doing fifty or sixty years ago too. I also don't think we will ever not be totally not dependent upon petroleum either. Even going hybrid vehicles, that get 50 to say 70 mpg fuel efficiency, we are still going to need petroleum to some extent. There are still going to be things that are made from petroleum as well.
     

    Darkpriest667

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    There are oil and natural gas releases from the ocean floor constantly. Oil is nasty stuff but it is made in the earth and released n volumes that dwarf what man actually emits while producing it. I’m not claiming we are having zero effect on the climate or environment but we give ourselves way too much credit. Man will be long gone and the earth will still be here long after. I think there are a lot more things we could focus on like recycling and not wasting so much. People are terribly wasteful and we are all guilty just some more than others. We create a lot of unnecessary waste every day and I guarantee it has a much more negative effect on the environment than oil and gas production and consumption...just think about it.

    I have solar panels on one of my houses, not because of clean energy but because I wanted to generate my own energy AND get a check from the electricity company once in a while.

    OUR effects on the climate are MINISCULE. In 1815 there was an entire year without a summer because of one volcanic eruption. Volcanic eruptions have a much higher impact on the climate (and immediate impact as well) than does man made fossil fuels. To be fair if we were going to be having a climate change it would have occurred sometime between 1850 and 1950. That's when we were pumping out complete garbage into the atmosphere on some staggering scales.

    In 1883 Krakatoa released 20 million TONS of sulfur into the atmosphere. In an instant. It also dropped the median temperature of the entire planet 2.5 degrees Farenheit for five years. These asshats now are saying if we do that we'd cause the end of the world. It's just not true.




    Also the whole plastic in the ocean things is not a myth, but it's also not caused by the U.S. It's mostly China, India, and Africa that is causing plastic ocean pollution.
     

    Rhino

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    I'm torn on this. I support the oil industry and actually do significant work for it regularly, but I do think some of our choices are unwise - not so much in transportation, but related to the food industry and packaging and plastic waste. Honestly, I wish we would make the effort to use more expensive durable alternatives like glass and paper because the landfills I also take photos of are going to be a BIG problem in the future, as is all the litter affecting wildlife and the oceans. The amount of TRASH out there is really appalling. Getting a trash-free pristine photo shoot is very difficult in commercial real estate, for instance.
     

    Wolfwood

    Self Appointed Board Chauvinist
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    got a bud of mine who saves up his milk jugs and other plastic waste, then distills them into diesel in his back yard.
     

    popper

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    subsidy definition is to provide income when the economy is down. oil industry goes down when field is restricted production or depleted. When you get paid to not produce it is a subsidy! Amortization is for depreciation of hardware, technically to 'save' for replacement. It just verbage, they use it to get what they want. Same with the 1200$ 'relief' check we got. It's a SUBSIDY!
    Grants were part of the spoils of war. Done for eons. Subsidies were to keep industries in business. Dairy, farmers, steel, coal, oil and gas. Basic Gov. price support. What comes after subsidies? Gov. OWNED business! That is what we refer to as socialism. Everybody is subsidized. Kinda like education and transportation now. Local Gov. used to issue local bonds to pay for projects and local taxes payed off the bonds. Now they get 'grants' from state and Fed gov. for many silly projects. Never did understand when I was a kid why pork bellies were the main topic of the stock market. In the 40s and 50s, pork was the primary meat product.
     
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    oldag

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    subsidy definition is to provide income when the economy is down. oil industry goes down when field is restricted production or depleted. When you get paid to not produce it is a subsidy! Amortization is for depreciation of hardware, technically to 'save' for replacement. It just verbage, they use it to get what they want. Same with the 1200$ 'relief' check we got. It's a SUBSIDY!
    Grants were part of the spoils of war. Done for eons. Subsidies were to keep industries in business. Dairy, farmers, steel, coal, oil and gas. Basic Gov. price support. What comes after subsidies? Gov. OWNED business! That is what we refer to as socialism. Everybody is subsidized. Kinda like education and transportation now. Local Gov. used to issue local bonds to pay for projects and local taxes payed off the bonds. Now they get 'grants' from state and Fed gov. for many silly projects. Never did understand when I was a kid why pork bellies were the main topic of the stock market. In the 40s and 50s, pork was the primary meat product.
    Sorry, but you are mistaken here. Oil companies get paid by customers, not the government. They are not paid not to produce.

    Depreciation is real. Assets like equipment and oil fields lose value over time. Does anyone think that an oil field with 20 million barrels of oil (for instance) has the same value as one with 1 million? Of course not. Is your car worth the same new as when it is 20 years old and has 200,000 miles on it? Same thing.

    You are confusing this with agriculture. Farmers can be paid to leave their fields fallow.
     

    SQLGeek

    Muh state lines
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    If they refer to operating expenses being used as tax deductions that’s not really a subsidy.

    I've been saying this to anyone who will listen (and many who won't) for years and years. This is what most think of when they hear "subsidy". Usually that's borne out of ignorance other times out of malice.
     

    popper

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    Try again. You pay gross taxes on all assets (hard or soft) and then get a 'rebate' for 'costs' - same thing. Any 'benefit' provided by the Gov. is a 'subsidy'! Gov. 'benefit' to keep you profitable (stay in business). Lower income families are given a 'subsidy' by allowance of deductibles on taxes. Grants are unearned 'gifts'.
    You can weasel word anything.
     

    SQLGeek

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    Try again. You pay gross taxes on all assets (hard or soft) and then get a 'rebate' for 'costs' - same thing. Any 'benefit' provided by the Gov. is a 'subsidy'! Gov. 'benefit' to keep you profitable (stay in business). Lower income families are given a 'subsidy' by allowance of deductibles on taxes. Grants are unearned 'gifts'.
    You can weasel word anything.

    And of the ~$10.7 billion quoted above, $8.5 Billion are exactly what I was referring to. Thank you for making my point for me.
     
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