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  • easy rider

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    There is a defense to prosecution for LTC holders if someone forbids handguns on his property and that is the basis of the trespass. For example: if you put up a sign that says "no guns allowed" on your house and I carry past it I would be entitled to a defense to a trespassing charge because I have an LTC. That's why only precise 30.06 or .07 signs apply to LTC holders.

    However, if in the above scenario you ordered me to leave directly I would have to comply and would have no defense if I did not comply. IMO we should repeal 30.06 and 30.07 and go this way.
    And that was what I was getting at was that I had stated "asked to leave" and was told there is an exception for LTC holders.

    (BTW, although I had studied the laws pertaining to guns after moving to Texas, I wouldn't claim I know it all, so I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something. So if my post sounded "no it all" it wasn't intended.)


    ETA: I actually said "tells you to leave", but still verbal.
     
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    This was the post you originally replied to:

    Technically, 30.05 has an exception for someone who has an LTC and was asked to leave because they were carrying a gun under that authority.

    If you are asked to leave because carry is forbidden you will be charged with 30.06 not 30.05
     

    easy rider

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    This was the post you originally replied to:



    If you are asked to leave because carry is forbidden you will be charged with 30.06 not 30.05
    I was talking about criminal trespass (refusal to leave), I didn't state which law it pertains to.
     
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    I was talking about criminal trespass (refusal to leave), I didn't state which law it pertains to.

    Nobody claimed that LTC holders get a blanket defense to 30.05. The poster you responded to stated that LTC holders get a defense when the basis for the trespass is the fact handguns are forbidden.
     

    easy rider

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    Technically, 30.05 has an exception for someone who has an LTC and was asked to leave because they were carrying a gun under that authority. In practice... well I'm not going to practice testing it.
    This is what was in response to what I had said about criminal trespass. It sounded like he was stating an exception to criminal trespass.
     

    Glenn B

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    Are you open to the public for business or not?

    Has the state established criminal trespass notice for open or concealed carry of any of the following:
    1. Free speech
    2. Religion
    3. Items produced by the press

    TPC 30.05 already has an enhancement to criminal trespass when carrying a deadly weapon and then carves out LTC holders from the enhanced charge.

    So, an LTC holder could walk into a Walmart posted as 30.06/30.07 with a long gun and be perfectly legal until asked to leave and then refusing to so. However, if carrying a handgun, the LTC holder is prohibited from entering an establishment posted under 30.06/30.07. What sense does that make from a law perspective.
    That does not answer my question, in fact it seemingly avoids it completely. I was not making a point, not giving my view either way, asking a sincere question about a property owner's rights versus your right to keep and bear arms. If you (particularly the OP) do decide to answer the actual question I asked - remember that your right to keep and bear arms is a protection against the government - it has nothing to do with protecting you from a private entity who wishes to curtail your freedom on that entity's property. Now, if the RKBA was considered a civil right, then it might be different with the way the law in interpreted right now but it has not yet been decided to be such. Anyway, I digress - I was really hoping for a plain and simple answer to my plain and simple question. It's just a curiosity thing, since it has come up in similar discussions before, to see how one person views his own right as compared to the right(s) of another.
     
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    toddnjoyce

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    That does not answer my question,

    To be explicitly clear, posting effective notice of No Trespassing is how a property owner (or someone with apparent control of the property) keeps out the armed riff-raff, regardless of weapon type.

    Beyond that, I do not believe any place that is open to the public should be able to discriminate or preemptively barr access to anyone for any reason unless there is a clear public safety issue, such as in jails and prisons.
     

    jordanmills

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    This is what was in response to what I had said about criminal trespass. It sounded like he was stating an exception to criminal trespass.
    technically it is a defense to prosecution
    You're right, it's a defense. For some reason, I was thinking that an unclear ground of defense was an exception, but it is a defense. So I guess it would be up to the defendant to prove that was the basis of the request to leave (which might not be that hard with all the cameras all around nowadays). And they might just claim that they also said you had to leave because they didn't like your face or something, and you'd be SOL if you can't prove it didn't happen. So like I said, I'm not interested in testing it.
     

    jordanmills

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    I have one other question that is kind of along the lines of the original question. Is there any specific kind of LEOSA ID? Or is it just a set of qualifications stated in federal law, and usually determined on the spot by the LEO looking into it, usually based on something like a texas "peace officer identification card" and shooting qualification card? What happens in cases where the person claiming LEOSA isn't a commissioned LEO or doesn't have a clear ID like that (maybe it's from out of state, or their agency refuses to issue a peace officer ID card for their position)? And no, I'm not thinking of doing something incredibly stupid like printing or altering my own card.
     
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