Do Elementary School Students still say the Pledge of Allegiance?

[dobarker]

I was wondering this yesterday. Do kids in Elementary Schools still say the Pledge of Allegiance?
I only ask because with every foreign guru claiming the right to express themselves it seems uncertain.

One can only hope that they still learn pride in their country early.
atriot:atriot:

 

[matefrio]

My 4 kids, in public schools, say the Pledge of Allegiance to the US flag and the salute to the Texas state flag every morning.

Honor the Texas flag;
I pledge allegiance to thee,
Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.

Like the Pledge of Allegiance to the US flag "under God" was added after the first draft but much later, 2007.

For txinvestigator::
GOVERNMENT CODE.
TITLE 11. STATE SYMBOLS AND HONORS; PRESERVATION.
SUBCHAPTER C. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO STATE FLAG.
CHAPTER 3100. STATE FLAG
Sec. 3100.101. PLEDGE. The pledge of allegiance to the state flag is: "Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible."
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 7.001, eff. Sept. 1, 2001
Amended by: Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 650, § 1, eff. June 15, 2007.
Sec. 3100.102. OCCASIONS AT WHICH PLEDGE MAY BE RECITED.
The pledge of allegiance to the state flag may be recited at any:
(1) public or private meeting at which the pledge of allegiance to the United States flag is recited; and
(2) state historical event or celebration.
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 7.001, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.
Sec. 3100.103. ORDER OF RECITATION.
The pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States should be recited before the pledge of allegiance to the state flag if both are recited.
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 7.001, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.
Sec. 3100.104. RECITING PLEDGE.
If the pledge to the state flag is recited, each person who is present and:
(1) not in uniform should: (A) face the state flag and stand at attention with the person's right hand over the heart; (B) if wearing a head covering that is easy to remove, remove that head covering with the right hand and hold it at the person's left shoulder, with the person's hand over the heart; and (C) recite the pledge; or
(2) in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and make the military salute.
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 7.001, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.

 

[AcidFlashGordon]

Like the Pledge of Allegiance to the US flag "under God" was added after the first draft but much later, 2007.

Right. The phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.

I was wondering this yesterday. Do kids in Elementary Schools still say the Pledge of Allegiance?
I only ask because with every foreign guru claiming the right to express themselves it seems uncertain.

One can only hope that they still learn pride in their country early.
atriot:atriot:

It seems that our values in God, country and allegiance are all under attack by the P.C. crowd. They don't want to offend anyone but they DO just that. They offend Americans who grew up believing in this country and what it, and its flag, stand for. I think the old Superman television series had it right....."Truth, Justice and the American Way." But then, I'm an old fart who grew up with Superman, Ozzie and Harriet, Dobie Gillis and all those other "sappy" U.S. programs.

 

[Clockwork]

Pride in one's country doesn't come from saying the pledge of allegience. A person needs a patriotic role model to look up to, I think. Otherwise "the pledge" is just some words that the grown ups make you say before class.

 

[AcidFlashGordon]

True that one needs a model and the pledge is just words. But, it does reinforce the belief, once a role model does illustrate the actual acts of patriotism and the meaning behind the pledge.

 

[Texan2]

I always wonder how or better yet, why, one would pledge their allegience to the U.S. flag and then to the Texas flag? That has never made sense to me. If Texas and the U.S.A. dont agree on things or if as some of our friends on here hope, Texas ever seceded.....which flag does your allegience go to? Since the first day we started with this Texas pledge deal, I still haven't come to grips with the mentality of promising your allegience to two flags.
Someone enlighten me.

 

[West Texas]

I always wonder how or better yet, why, one would pledge their allegience to the U.S. flag and then to the Texas flag? That has never made sense to me. If Texas and the U.S.A. dont agree on things or if as some of our friends on here hope, Texas ever seceded.....which flag does your allegience go to? Since the first day we started with this Texas pledge deal, I still haven't come to grips with the mentality of promising your allegience to two flags.
Someone enlighten me.

Maybe a way to further devalue and minimize the importance of commitment and staying true to your values?

 

[skinman]

The US and Texas flag pledges are still recited in all Texas public schools followed by a minute of silence. Students are asked to recite and stand but they cannot be forced to IAW federal law.

It is common to see students and staff offer silent prayers during the moment of silence. Most just go about their business getting ready for the school day.

I personally do not have a problem with the pledges, but I cannot help but wonder why folks will sanctimoniously slam those who want to remove the reference to God because they are offended, claim they are equally offended when it is even mentioned? Seems that one group is offended because the other group is offended...maybe both pledges should be returned to their secular origins...THAT is the American Way...

I am going to rant on another point that was brought up here...if there somehow comes a dark day when some idiots TRY to force the succession of the Great State of Texas from the United States of America, they will have a very short war on their hands...there are FAR more real American patriots who are also Texans who are more than willing to take up arms and go to war to defend the unity of the United States and the Constitution that binds these states to a common cause. I once swore to protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic...and I am still bound by that oath. [end rant]

 

[jake75]

To the original post, my kids say the pledge of allegiance. They don't say the Texas one. I just asked my daughter.

 

[Texan2]

i dont care who makes a pledge to either flag...just curious how anyone can pledge to both.

Skinman, this is just a hypothetical, but if there was a referendum and the vast majority of Texans wanted to secede you would fight and kill your fellow Americans to keep them in a system of government that they no longer wish to participate in?

I am not saying I support seceding, I dont. But I cant help but do what modern politicians hate for us to do, look at what the founders said....

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

It seems our government wants to deny citizens the very right that the the birth of this nation was based on....
Again, I am not a seccesionist, just making an observation of yet another double standard Washington imposes on us.

 

[skinman]

i dont care who makes a pledge to either flag...just curious how anyone can pledge to both.

Skinman, this is just a hypothetical, but if there was a referendum and the vast majority of Texans wanted to secede you would fight and kill your fellow Americans to keep them in a system of government that they no longer wish to participate in?

I am not saying I support seceding, I dont. But I cant help but do what modern politicians hate for us to do, look at what the founders said....

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

It seems our government wants to deny citizens the very right that the the birth of this nation was based on....
Again, I am not a seccesionist, just making an observation of yet another double standard Washington imposes on us.

First, I cannot forsee even a simple, "majority," of Texans voting to succeed from the United States, let alone a, "vast majority." Texans, while certainly full of their own self importance and rightly proud of their independent history, are also fiercely patriotic to their nation.

Texas is a large state as far as size goes, but it is totally dependent on the rest of the states and nation for its economic success and security. Imagine what would happen if Texas did manage to succeed without a bloody war. A US economic blockade would be likely. Since international commerce and treaties is the domain of the federal government, the other states would have to risk federal government economic sanctions and risk their own economic health in order to do business with Texas. US controls the Gulf sea lanes so unless Texas has a naval force to impose its will, trading by sea is out. Unless Texas opened its borders with Mexico, and Mexico was willing to risk economic sanctions from the United States, there would be no trade routes for commerce. No trade routes means no commerce, and no commerce means the end of Texas.

Texas succession is a braggart's dream, a pie-in-the sky idea that is so absurd as to be laughable. And, as far as what I would do, I will refer back to the oath I took to protect our nation...united...including Texas...against those who would seek to destroy it...including misguided Texans.

As for our government denying its citizens rights that the nation was founded on, I view this argument with skepticism and cannot help but wonder why was this argument not brought up when our last president and Congress systematically tossed out and or ignored fundemental civil rights and liberties in the name of national security with the so called, Patriot Act, sent our armed forces to war without a declaration of war as called out in the Constitution, circumvented the Constitutional mandate for Congress to, "advise and consent," by abusing Executive Orders and Presidential Directives. Even today, the conservatives and other extremists who are clamoring on about the federal government marginalizing the Constitution only do so with those parts they agree with. For example, there is an element of the, "return to the Constitution," bunch who are also ready to toss the 14th Amendment as well as Constitutional guarantees of due process because they find them inconvenient to their extremist conservative agenda.

There is a way to take control of our government and it is by way of the ballot. It only works when we take the time to vote and respect that our choice is not shared by a majority of our fellow citizens when we loose, and respect the dissent of those whose choice is not the majority. I think that is what is missing today...respect for those who disagree and who won the democratic election.

 

[Texan2]

You said the way to take back our nation is "by way of the ballot". My question was, if that ballot led to Texas seccesion would you kill fellow Texans to prevent it...you didnt answer that.
Again, I dont support seccesion.
And while your long reply goes on about why Texas couldn't succeed as a nation (many of your points I agree with),
you are trying to take a simple question and make it a Republican vs. Democrat argument. I dont agree with much of what the last administration did, just as I dont agree with much of what this one is doing. But those ponts have nothing to do with the question at hand.

Furthermore no one wants to toss out the 14th amendment. It was designed to make former slaves into citizens because they were born in the U.S. Now it has been twisted into making illegal immigrants wade across the border during childbirth to give birth on U.S. soil and make a defacto citizen out of their off spring. Again, conservatives are wanting to use the power of the vote to bring change and because you may not agree with it you accuse them of tossing out the constitution. When prohibition was passed and didnt work it was repealled. The constitution was designed to have some give to it. Ammendments can be passed as well as repealed.

As far as respect is concerned, it has nothing to do with the discussion but since you brought it up. It isnt that anyone has no respect for the current President because of any other reason but his propensity to lie about everything. From transparency in govt. to not growing the defecit, to allowing the public to see bills before they are forced through congress.... the list goes on. Furthermore HE has no respect for the wishes of his constituents.

I could write all day about his shortcomings and criminal behavior and I am not even what most would consider a "hard core" conservative, although under the current president's criteria, anyone who aligns themselves with any type of Tea Party group, or the NRA, or the Libertarian Party is a "right wing extremist"...lol, give me a break.

Anyway, my question was if there was a legal election for Texas or any state to secede and it passed, would you kill to keep people in a from of government that they (according to the Declaration of Independence) legally decided to part with. Its sounds like you are saying you would...I think.

I am not passing judgement. It was a simple question. According to your post, you say that people need to use the ballot box...unless the ballot box doesnt go the way you like, then you would use force to force people to do what they voted not to do. hmm...interesting.

 

[skinman]

[snip]

...my question was if there was a legal election for Texas or any state to secede and it passed, would you kill to keep people in a from of government that they (according to the Declaration of Independence) legally decided to part with. Its sounds like you are saying you would...I think.

Since Texas nor any other state can legally succeed from the Union for any reason (it took a bloody Civil War to drive that point home), then such a vote would be illegal hence null and void, so this is a moot point.

Hypothetically, if such a thing were to happen (and I really don't see it), my loyalties lie with the United States of America and as such I believe that I would be forced to choose to honor my oath to defend it against all enemies, even if it meant taking up arms against my fellow Texans. United we stand, divided we fall.

I am not passing judgement. It was a simple question. According to your post, you say that people need to use the ballot box...unless the ballot box doesnt go the way you like, then you would use force to force people to do what they voted not to do. hmm...interesting.

Your simple question has a very complex and complicated answer. No one really knows what they will do in any situation until they face it down. While I want to believe that I could respect the will of the majority and support their choice, I am also aware that a mindless mob can also represent a majority that is acting on emotions without intelligent direction. For example, if the majority voted to bring back prohibition or segregation, I could not support nor respect that choice and would support forcing the majority to, "do what they voted not to do."

I did not mean to present a Dem v. Rep argument although it always seems to go there when one brings up conservative or liberal ideology. I do not care for extremism on either side of the political spectrum. I more align with moderate conservatism and I suspect we are closer to each other with our political ideology than it seems.

 

[HDP Chris]

About a year and a half ago, my agency made saying the Pledge of Alegence part of policy. At the begining of any muster/shift meeting we all stand and state. Those with religious or personal beliefs stand quietly. I believe it is a good reminder for a Sheriffs Office, "Liberty and Justice for all." atriot:

 

[Texan2]

Since Texas nor any other state can legally succeed from the Union for any reason (it took a bloody Civil War to drive that point home), then such a vote would be illegal hence null and void, so this is a moot point.

Hypothetically, if such a thing were to happen (and I really don't see it), my loyalties lie with the United States of America and as such I believe that I would be forced to choose to honor my oath to defend it against all enemies, even if it meant taking up arms against my fellow Texans. United we stand, divided we fall.



Your simple question has a very complex and complicated answer. No one really knows what they will do in any situation until they face it down. While I want to believe that I could respect the will of the majority and support their choice, I am also aware that a mindless mob can also represent a majority that is acting on emotions without intelligent direction. For example, if the majority voted to bring back prohibition or segregation, I could not support nor respect that choice and would support forcing the majority to, "do what they voted not to do."

I did not mean to present a Dem v. Rep argument although it always seems to go there when one brings up conservative or liberal ideology. I do not care for extremism on either side of the political spectrum. I more align with moderate conservatism and I suspect we are closer to each other with our political ideology than it seems.

No doubt we are closer in thought than it may appear here.
I have always had an issue with the topic of seccession. Our own Declaration of Independence supports the right of people to break away from a government that no longer serves them in the manner that they wish, and allow them to form a new government. Numerous qoutes from the founders back up that this was their intent.
the fact that the North forced the south back into the union against its will does not make those actions right.
By your rules we broke the law when we broke from England (which we did). We said we were leavng, the king said we werent. In the long run it is easier to see that by breaking British law we did what was right and proper.
I can even make it harder for you. what if the USA did bring back segregation or even slavery...and Texas was the lone holdout? Would you still support the USA and fight against Texas? You see how these things can be complicated? Saying I will support the USA no matter what is somewhat of a blind promise to make.
Obviously I am throwing out wild scenarios that have no chance of ever becoming reality....my point was to stimulate thought and make folks see that blind loyalty is extremely dangerous.

 

[jbh2000]

No doubt we are closer in thought than it may appear here.
I have always had an issue with the topic of seccession. Our own Declaration of Independence supports the right of people to break away from a government that no longer serves them in the manner that they wish, and allow them to form a new government. Numerous qoutes from the founders back up that this was their intent.
the fact that the North forced the south back into the union against its will does not make those actions right.
By your rules we broke the law when we broke from England (which we did). We said we were leavng, the king said we werent. In the long run it is easier to see that by breaking British law we did what was right and proper.
I can even make it harder for you. what if the USA did bring back segregation or even slavery...and Texas was the lone holdout? Would you still support the USA and fight against Texas? You see how these things can be complicated? Saying I will support the USA no matter what is somewhat of a blind promise to make.
Obviously I am throwing out wild scenarios that have no chance of ever becoming reality....my point was to stimulate thought and make folks see that blind loyalty is extremely dangerous.

I'll buy your point on blind loyalty, but the comparison with the reasons for the Declaration of Independence and the "reasons" given by the TEA Partiers and others threatening secession now is mostly BS. If you're sore because your candidate lost the election, fine...work harder to elect the man of your choice next time. Don't spend the next four years trying to run the country into the ground to make the winner look like a loser. I spent the first 20+ years of my adult life in the Marines and the US Navy, and the last 20+ teaching HS students. I might get up there and pledge allegiance to both the flags of the United States and Texas, but make no mistake...my primary loyalty is to the United States. I swore that same oath, to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic more times than I can count and I mean it still today.

 

[Texan2]

Let me say...yet again.
1.) This discussion has nothing to do with who is or isnt president. This has nothing to do with republicans or democrats (or the Tea Party). As far as the last election, I told those close to me it was over the day after the Republican Convention ended.
2.) I dont support seccesion, I think it would be devastating economically to Texas or any state.
3.) The U.S. declared indenpendence from England when the colonists taxes were roughly 10% of their gross income and they thought that to be outrageous (compared to ours which are over 50%). they also didn't have adequate representation in England, but make no mistake, it was the taxes that lit the fuse.

I think those that DO support seccession dont do so based on Obama, hell, most were preaching it for years and years. The arguements they make have amazing similarities to those the founders had.

I guess it has always perplexed me that the government's attitude on this subject is essentially, "It was ok for us to secede from England, but even though each state entered the union voluntarily, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES can any state, ever....for any reason break away from the United States....seems somewhat hypocritical, but I suppose that should not surprise me.

Lastly you addressed what started the conversation. How can you pledge your allegiance to 2 flags? Its always intrigued me. Texas is the only state I have ever seen that does a state pledge.

 

[West Texas]

Everyone keeps saying "United States" without even seeing what they are typing. UNITED STATES.

STATES.

According to the Constitution, the STATES rights supersceed the rights of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, unless the State has SPECIFICALLY GIVEN THAT RIGHT TO THE FEDERAL GOVT.

EACH STATE IS ALREADY INDEPENDENT. We all have stood UNITED under a FEDERAL GOVERNMENT that is made up of repersentation from what?

THE STATES.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

Or atleast that was the INTENT and PURPOSE. We form a nation of STATES, and Texas, having been a COUNTRY with it's own Constitution before JOINING the UNION of STATES, also, as part of that joining, insisted on the right to withdraw FROM that Union, just as the Constitution says any STATE can...and we also have the right to devide into multiple states made up up the different areas within our States Boundries.

The United States is not a COUNTRY UNTO IT'S SELF, it is a UNION OF STATES. And at this moment, we have a FEDERAL GOVERNMEBT THAT IS OUT OF CONTROL, and our Founding Fathers thought this might happen, and gave us a way to fix it. First, at the ballot box. If that doesn't work, then a State can choice to no longer be a part of the Union os States, and in a case where the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT formed by the STATES goes totally our of control, then the founding fathers built in one more "fail-safe", and they put it real close to the top of the list...the 2nd Amendment.

You didn't take an oath to a political party, or to a government. You took an oath to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, and ANY order given that violates that all important document is not a lawful order.

As far as Texas suceeding. SHOULD it ever come to that, some very bad things would have happened...and God help us all at that point.