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Coronavirus Epidemic, Part 2

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  • rotor

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    2% die from Covid or with covid? There is a massive difference.

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    I live in a relatively small town. I have many doctor friends. Our hospital icu is filled with Covid patients and we are seeing 4-5 people die daily with the death certificate cause of death as Covid. Over 100 new cases being reported daily. I don't know why people feel that the death rate is less than 0.01%. This is just not factually correct. Throughout Texas the mortality rate is close to 2%. I don't like it, you don't like it but not everything is fake news and people who promote this as a negligible death rate may be misleading others to take risks that they shouldn't.
    I wish that the people who claim a negligible mortality rate were right. Anyone with any sense though can figure the difference between 2% and 0.01%. Basically people, out of 100 people that test positive for Covid we can expect about 2 to die. Many may not bother going for the test so perhaps the rate is lower. Many may have false negative or false positive tests and again the rate may be different. There is no reason though to believe that doctors are lying about the cause of death on a death certificate. It is the doctor that lists the cause of death.
    I am just as sick of this whole thing as anyone else but I am a realist and after almost a year, the numbers just don't lie and for now they are getting worse. I don't know if I will go for a messengerRNA vaccine but I will be getting something that has a reasonable chance of working with low side effects. Still doing the research.
    And finally, where are the numbers coming from that say mortality rate is less than 0.01% as is so often quoted here? Are these reliable numbers when friends that I had are gone from Covid? I have already seen members here that did not know how to do the math to get mortality rate. They may know guns but not math.
    Long exercise in futility here as to be honest this is like the reason I carry, not for you but for me and mine so I take precautions for me and mine. Everyone else is free to believe what they want.
     

    seeker_two

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    That place east of Waco....
    I live in a relatively small town. I have many doctor friends. Our hospital icu is filled with Covid patients and we are seeing 4-5 people die daily with the death certificate cause of death as Covid.

    Your hospital's financial director must be overjoyed....

    How exactly are you determining that COD is COVID-19 exclusively? Autopsy?



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    rotor

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    Your hospital's financial director must be overjoyed....

    How exactly are you determining that COD is COVID-19 exclusively? Autopsy?



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    Cause of death is what the attending physician puts on the death certificate, exactly what I posted above. Someone comes in with Covid19, goes into respiratory failure, on a ventilator and dies.... I would say cause of death is Covid. Could be sepsis from pneumonia being on a ventilator or could be pulmonary embolus or could be renal failure or any other complication from being on a ventilator but I would call it primarily Covid with secondary causes listed. What would you call it?
     

    cycleguy2300

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    I live in a relatively small town. I have many doctor friends. Our hospital icu is filled with Covid patients and we are seeing 4-5 people die daily with the death certificate cause of death as Covid. Over 100 new cases being reported daily. I don't know why people feel that the death rate is less than 0.01%. This is just not factually correct. Throughout Texas the mortality rate is close to 2%. I don't like it, you don't like it but not everything is fake news and people who promote this as a negligible death rate may be misleading others to take risks that they shouldn't.
    I wish that the people who claim a negligible mortality rate were right. Anyone with any sense though can figure the difference between 2% and 0.01%. Basically people, out of 100 people that test positive for Covid we can expect about 2 to die. Many may not bother going for the test so perhaps the rate is lower. Many may have false negative or false positive tests and again the rate may be different. There is no reason though to believe that doctors are lying about the cause of death on a death certificate. It is the doctor that lists the cause of death.
    I am just as sick of this whole thing as anyone else but I am a realist and after almost a year, the numbers just don't lie and for now they are getting worse. I don't know if I will go for a messengerRNA vaccine but I will be getting something that has a reasonable chance of working with low side effects. Still doing the research.
    And finally, where are the numbers coming from that say mortality rate is less than 0.01% as is so often quoted here? Are these reliable numbers when friends that I had are gone from Covid? I have already seen members here that did not know how to do the math to get mortality rate. They may know guns but not math.
    Long exercise in futility here as to be honest this is like the reason I carry, not for you but for me and mine so I take precautions for me and mine. Everyone else is free to believe what they want.
    There is a federal financial incentive to having a death from covid.

    The issue is the VAST majority of "covid deaths" are deaths *WITH* covid, not exactly from covid. I.e. if I get shot and die and I had covid I "died from covid" event though the reality is I died with covid.

    What sunk the titanic? Shitty steel and poor engineering or an iceberg?

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    rotor

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    There is a federal financial incentive to having a death from covid.

    The issue is the VAST majority of "covid deaths" are deaths *WITH* covid, not exactly from covid. I.e. if I get shot and die and I had covid I "died from covid" event though the reality is I died with covid.

    What sunk the titanic? Shitty steel and poor engineering or an iceberg?

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    What is the Federal financial incentive that would make a doctor lie on a death certificate? Can you give me a source for that.
     

    Dougw1515

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    rotor

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    This might do it...

    So all of the doctors in the country are perjuring themselves and lying on official documents to boost the number of covid deaths. They get no financial benefit from this and risk loss of their license and possible even jail sentences lying on official government forms. Talk about stupid conspiracy theories. Do you really believe this? Do you lie on your 4473 forms? Where does this lunacy come from? Do you seriously believe that this is a government conspiracy? Worldwide? Perhaps the doctors in every country are the conspirators boosting the numbers of Covid deaths for..... I can't think of a reason.
    Can you show me any source from anywhere in the world that the mortality rate is less than 0.01% as listed by members on this forum? Some of whom are seriously mathematically challenged,
     

    jrbfishn

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    Texas has a total pop. of roughly 30,000,000. As of today, with a total case count of 1,014,160, your chance of positive covid is 3.38% of pop.. with a total fatality count of 19,470, IF you get it, your chance of dieing WITH covid is 1.9%. Percent of total pop., .065%.
    Now bare in mind that of those 19,470 deaths, on average only 6%, or about 1168 people actually died FROM covid. The rest had at leas two other life threatening illnesses whether they knew it or not.
    40 or under, only about 500 total has died WITH it. Less than 1600 under 50 years of age. That means that less than 100 people under 50 actually died from covid, not with it. Under 50, you have far more chance of dieng fro the flu or pneumonia. And they kill far more kids per year than covid thought about.
    Wichita county, you profile says you are in that area, has only 79 total deaths. At 4-5 a day you would have more than that in about 3 weeks. Surrounding counties only have 4 total.

    The numbers you give are stictly for doom and gloom. Just enough to be scary, but not enough to tell the whole story.
    I live in Bell county and it is worse off than you. But not anywhere near as bad as you want us to think.
    If you add in the number of assumed cases that never got tested, the above numbers drop substantially and mean it is even less likely to kill you.
    The fear mongering needs to STOP. Damn.

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    rotor

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    Texas has a total pop. of roughly 30,000,000. As of today, with a total case count of 1,014,160, your chance of positive covid is 3.38% of pop.. with a total fatality count of 19,470, IF you get it, your chance of dieing WITH covid is 1.9%. Percent of total pop., .065%.
    Now bare in mind that of those 19,470 deaths, on average only 6%, or about 1168 people actually died FROM covid. The rest had at leas two other life threatening illnesses whether they knew it or not.
    40 or under, only about 500 total has died WITH it. Less than 1600 under 50 years of age. That means that less than 100 people under 50 actually died from covid, not with it. Under 50, you have far more chance of dieng fro the flu or pneumonia. And they kill far more kids per year than covid thought about.
    Wichita county, you profile says you are in that area, has only 79 total deaths. At 4-5 a day you would have more than that in about 3 weeks. Surrounding counties only have 4 total.

    The numbers you give are stictly for doom and gloom. Just enough to be scary, but not enough to tell the whole story.
    I live in Bell county and it is worse off than you. But not anywhere near as bad as you want us to think.

    The fear mongering needs to STOP. Damn.

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    Where do you get your numbers from? How do you know that only 6% died from Covid? That is just BS and you know it. When a death certificate is filled out the cause of death is listed. Of those 19,470 deaths 100% had the cause of death as Covid. That is why they are listed as Covid deaths. Co-existing morbidities mean nothing. If 100 people get Covid expect that 2 will die from it directly. Maybe 6 months from now they would die from heart disease or something else, we all do die. But regardless of what you wish, right now if you have 100 friends with Covid positive expect that 2 will die from Covid.
     

    Big Green

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    Based on most recent news article, Brazos County has a 99.047% survivability rate if you are a confirmed positive. If you include the “probable” cases they also like to report, which includes those with tested antibodies, it goes up to 99.177% survivability rate.
     

    rotor

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    Based on most recent news article, Brazos County has a 99.047% survivability rate if you are a confirmed positive. If you include the “probable” cases they also like to report, which includes those with tested antibodies, it goes up to 99.177% survivability rate.
    So Brazos county is doing good with less than 1% death rate, a total of 8401 cases and 81 deaths. But this is not the less than 0.01% mortality rate claimed by some, it is just under 1%. Your hospital is doing good or your people are tougher than in my community. Your ICU is at 75% capacity. Stay healthy.
     

    jrbfishn

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    Where do you get your numbers from? How do you know that only 6% died from Covid? That is just BS and you know it. When a death certificate is filled out the cause of death is listed. Of those 19,470 deaths 100% had the cause of death as Covid. That is why they are listed as Covid deaths. Co-existing morbidities mean nothing. If 100 people get Covid expect that 2 will die from it directly. Maybe 6 months from now they would die from heart disease or something else, we all do die. But regardless of what you wish, right now if you have 100 friends with Covid positive expect that 2 will die from Covid.

    Got my numbers from the Texas website. 6% from the CDC. And talk about BS. Not even close to your numbers are dieing in any hospital anywhere near you.
    And as for doctors, they ain't no god like person. Hospitals are there to make money and the Fed Gov is giving away money if covid is on the certificate.


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    RoadRunner

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    Here
    1605413789647.png
     

    rotor

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    Got my numbers from the Texas website. 6% from the CDC. And talk about BS. Not even close to your numbers are dieing in any hospital anywhere near you.
    And as for doctors, they ain't no god like person. Hospitals are there to make money and the Fed Gov is giving away money if covid is on the certificate.


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    Post that Texas website that backs you up.
    Here is my local area
     

    innominate

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    So all of the doctors in the country are perjuring themselves and lying on official documents to boost the number of covid deaths. They get no financial benefit from this and risk loss of their license and possible even jail sentences lying on official government forms. Talk about stupid conspiracy theories. Do you really believe this? Do you lie on your 4473 forms? Where does this lunacy come from? Do you seriously believe that this is a government conspiracy? Worldwide? Perhaps the doctors in every country are the conspirators boosting the numbers of Covid deaths for..... I can't think of a reason.
    Can you show me any source from anywhere in the world that the mortality rate is less than 0.01% as listed by members on this forum? Some of whom are seriously mathematically challenged,
    I'm not jumping into this covid #s debate but I just wanted to say that the medical field isn't by the numbers, cut and dried, black and white etc. There is evidence based practice based on research but there is also opinion and decisions based on experience. It's a world where the Dr has to say certain words/ phrases in their dictation otherwise Medicare will not pay the hospital for the procedure they just performed. The hospital gives "guidance" to Dr's to make sure they get reimbursement. You can word things different ways to come to different conclusions and not lie.

    I worked at a teaching hospital and we would do a yearly conference that Dr's and other hospital staff would attend for CEU's. We would be doing procedures at the hospital and were video linked to the convention center where there is a panel of Dr's and those in attendance watching. I remember a case that our Dr asked the panel what they would do. He wasn't waiting for their answer. He just kept on working. The panel had there discussion and one Dr said what he thought should be done. Our Dr was basically doing the opposite of this Dr's opinion. Some Dr's are more aggressive, some more conservative in their treatments.

    I worked with another Dr who, imo, was performing malpractice. He was actually sued, a couple times iirc. He also had a law degree. He prevailed in court. This is my assumption, he must have been able to successfully argue his decision making process with his dictation.

    Anyway, back to the numbers debate
     

    innominate

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    Post that Texas website that backs you up.
    Here is my local area
    A link in the article you posted says this

    "WICHITA CO. (KFDX/KJTL)— While many across the country question how many deaths were people with coronavirus who actually died for other reasons, local health officials said all Wichita County deaths are COVID-19 related, but not everyone died as a direct result of the disease.

    Health Director Lou Kreidler said the county reports them as COVID related deaths because they were infected with COVID-19 at time of death."
     
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