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Contract Postal Units and 39 CFR §232.1

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  • majormadmax

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    Stopped by the Rio Medina General Store on my way home this afternoon to get some sweet iced tea (it's hot outside!) and noticed they have this sign...

    usps158.jpg


    ... at the entrance stating carry on the property was prohibited by 39 CFR §232.1 as there is a contract postal unit (CPU) on the premises.

    A CPU is, per the USPS, "a retail postal facility located inside a retail establishment, such as supermarkets, card and gift shops, pharmacies, and colleges. CPUs are operated by the retailer's employees and offer the same basic services available at a regular Post Office."

    The post office area being leased is a small portion of the back of the store. Therefore, I do not believe 39 CFR §232.1 is applicable to the entire premises; and it sure as hell isn't Federal property so 18 U.S. Code §930 isn't even close to applying!

    §232.1 states that it applies to "all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service (emphasis mine), to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property." The entire store clearly doesn't fall under the "charge and control" of the USPS.

    As expected, there's little more on the applicability of §232.1 at a CPU other than a discussion in another gun forum where the answers go in both directions.

    I have asked the USPS Inspector General about applicability of these Federal firearm regulations at a CPU, but I am not holding my breathe on an answer!

    So, what do y'all think?

    Cheers! M2
     

    majormadmax

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    By the way, if it turns out to be true, you can't take your dogs and other animals, except those used to assist persons with disabilities, either! :(

    39 CFR §232.1(j) Dogs and other animals. Dogs and other animals, except those used to assist persons with disabilities, must not be brought upon postal property for other than official purposes.
     

    Southpaw

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    By the way, if it turns out to be true, you can't take your dogs and other animals, except those used to assist persons with disabilities, either! :(

    or knives (Dangerous weapons not defined)
    or have a passenger that was drinking prior to entering postal property in your vehicle.
    or be a day late on your vehicle registration.


    :p
     

    benenglish

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    or be a day late on your vehicle registration.
    That's stretching it. If you happen to be unlucky enough for the Federal Protective Service to write you a ticket for an automotive violation such as your registration or exceeding the 5 MPH speed limit, the case is heard in Federal District Court. The judges in those courts generally get angry with the FPS when the court's time is wasted with such trivial matters. That's why the fines are so low on most of them. The last time I got an FPS speeding ticket, for example, the fine was just $35 and it didn't show on my driving record.
     

    benenglish

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    By the way, if it turns out to be true, you can't take your dogs and other animals, except those used to assist persons with disabilities, either! :(
    I think one of the craziest things I ever saw was when the contract guards at a federal building tried to prohibit a woman from entering with her dog. She had all the paperwork to document that the little dog she was carrying was a service animal. She had some kind of anxiety disorder and the dog kept her calm.

    The guards couldn't get it through their brains that a service animal could be anything other than a seeing-eye dog. They were telling her she couldn't come in. She knew she had a right to enter. The impasse got louder and louder and that dog was really needed to keep her calm

    I left before it concluded but I was told the next day that someone with a brain had finally hit the guards with a clue-by-four and they now understood that there were hearing dogs for deaf folks, calming dogs for folks with mental problems, and other types of service animals.
     
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    I thought contract unit had a contract with the USPS, not that USPS was leasing the property. IMO none of that place is Postal Property
     

    majormadmax

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    I thought contract unit had a contract with the USPS, not that USPS was leasing the property. IMO none of that place is Postal Property

    I agree, but the owner claimed she was required by the contract to post the signs. I personally don't feel they are enforceable in that unless the Post Office owns and operates the general store, the building is not a post office especially when you consider the criteria the USPS posts...

    https://about.usps.com/suppliers/becoming/contract-postal-unit.htm

    Of course, the USPS IG has not replied to my question! :(
     

    benenglish

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    I agree, but the owner claimed she was required by the contract to post the signs.
    If that's the case and the owner doesn't like it, what's to prevent her from posting another sign right next to it with an arrow pointing to it? Something along the lines of "Rio Medina is required by contract to post this sign. Rio Medina is not postal property. You may ignore the meaningless sign."

    I personally don't feel they are enforceable...
    So, like a bad 30.06 sign or a gunbusters emblem, just walk past it.

    Of course, the USPS IG has not replied to my question!
    You expected anything else?
     

    Coop45

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    Of course, the USPS IG has not replied to my question

    He was probably with the FBI talking to Hillary about pantsuits.
     

    fishingsetx

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    I deal with a USPS contract shop all the time and have never seen that sign. Heck, the lady that owns the place and her husband are gun nuts! The only sign she has poster is "lawfull concealed carry encouraged in this business" right behind the counter! Its been posted since before OC, so im not sure on her stance there, but knowing her, she would encourage that too!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
     

    majormadmax

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    I deal with a USPS contract shop all the time and have never seen that sign. Heck, the lady that owns the place and her husband are gun nuts! The only sign she has poster is "lawfull concealed carry encouraged in this business" right behind the counter! Its been posted since before OC, so im not sure on her stance there, but knowing her, she would encourage that too!

    Given that this is Rio Medina, a small unincorporated community between San Antonio and Castroville on FM 471 (29.441469, -98.884109), it was surprising that the owner wasn't more pro-gun about the issue. This is a very urban area, with a lot of hunters and if I am not mistaken they even sell ammo in the store (I will check for sure the next time I go in).

    I also noticed on GoogleMaps that there is an icon for the post office, but it's still the store. However, there's a picture of the plaque in front that gives the history of the place. When the store was first opened around 1908, the owner applied for a post office within the store and was eventually made the postmaster. A subsequent owner was also given the title, but at no time was the original building or the current one a dedicated post office.

    I will try to take a picture of the plaque on my way home, I cannot link to the image from GoogleMaps.

    Cheers! M2
     

    fishingsetx

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    Given that this is Rio Medina, a small unincorporated community between San Antonio and Castroville on FM 471 (29.441469, -98.884109), it was surprising that the owner wasn't more pro-gun about the issue. This is a very urban area, with a lot of hunters and if I am not mistaken they even sell ammo in the store (I will check for sure the next time I go in).

    I also noticed on GoogleMaps that there is an icon for the post office, but it's still the store. However, there's a picture of the plaque in front that gives the history of the place. When the store was first opened around 1908, the owner applied for a post office within the store and was eventually made the postmaster. A subsequent owner was also given the title, but at no time was the original building or the current one a dedicated post office.

    I will try to take a picture of the plaque on my way home, I cannot link to the image from GoogleMaps.

    Cheers! M2
    maybe thats the difference. The place I use has PO Boxes and does shipping, but they were never a post office. must be 2 different kinds of contracts.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
     

    majormadmax

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    Well, I stopped by there again today (it's along one of my "back" ways home) and talked with the nice young lady working at the front register as there was no one in the post office area. I asked if the person who worked the post office was a USPS employee or an employee of the store. She said they had one of both, with the second person being a prior USPS employee who was still "qualified" to work there. That just confuses the matter even more, but it is clear that despite what signs they have up; it is mostly a store than a post office.

    I should have taken a pic while inside, but I did snap a quick shot of the historic sign out front...

    Rio%20Medina%20Store%20and%20Post%20Office%20Sign_zpspwydugeb.jpg


    Cheers! M2
     

    majormadmax

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    UPDATE: I actually stopped by this place on my way home from work on Friday, and the signs are gone. I guess they finally figured out the entire establishment wasn't a post office! Luckily, there were no 30.06 or 30.07 signs to replace them...
     
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