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Claiming "combat accuracy" is an excuse.

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  • StevenC.

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    Mar 10, 2013
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    ...For Army Special Operators in training, nobody yells at you or attempts to get you to "be aggressive" when teaching marksmanship or fundamentals. the purpose is to build surgical accuracy and clean mechanics to fall back on when stress levels pick up...

    Slightly different way of what I was advocating in the video.

    I was also struck how the following mirrors how the competition shooter training to shoot in USPSA and IDPA style matches

    Not even when CQB begins are you prompted to be aggressive. You are taught to BE DECISIVE. Make a decision and follow through. You are constantly fighting being over-amped, which will help you never. The interesting thing about the Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action is that the "Violence of Action" part does not mean you throw on a war face, flex as hard as you can, or run around screaming. It simply means you decisively engage with overwhelming force that is achieved by accurate firepower. Something to think about in your training.

    I've coached a number of shooters and with good records and a timer you can show them how 0.10 seconds is typically the difference between the pinnacle of their performance (hits as fast as they can get them) and crashing and burning (out of control shooting, un-aimed/not aimed enough, many misses). They are over-amp as you say


    And on for the "heart" shot placement, my head hurt a little listening to that. Your proper initial point of aim is center, high on the chest. Your preferred target is the spine. If you miss and hit the lung or heart, that's ok but it won't immediately prevent your hostile target from stopping his actions.

    While I used the heart as starting point in describing the size of targets which effect a stop quickly, I did move on to the spine and brain, all as support for my opinion that 8" at short distance while happy and hunky dory on the range is likely insufficient marksmanship skill. Because, as you said, "the purpose is to build surgical accuracy and clean mechanics to fall back on when stress levels pick up..."

    I completely agree that the CNS will more assuredly end the threat, but those shots require the surgical accuracy and clean mechanics we both seem to be advocating.

    I would never argue that shot from the oblique through both lungs and the heart is guaranteed to instantly, but it does have a high likelihood of doing so. When faced head on the shot through the heart will likely damage the spine bringing on at least instantaneous paralysis allowing the destroyed heart or major artery to have it's impact.

    No matter what little differences we might hold, it appears we agree on the larger premise that being a very good shooter is a bone to surviving the gun fight.

    I appreciate you taking the time to share your insights on this thread.
     

    Green Eye Tactical

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    Sep 11, 2013
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    Dallas, Tx
    Slightly different way of what I was advocating in the video.

    I was also struck how the following mirrors how the competition shooter training to shoot in USPSA and IDPA style matches



    I've coached a number of shooters and with good records and a timer you can show them how 0.10 seconds is typically the difference between the pinnacle of their performance (hits as fast as they can get them) and crashing and burning (out of control shooting, un-aimed/not aimed enough, many misses). They are over-amp as you say




    While I used the heart as starting point in describing the size of targets which effect a stop quickly, I did move on to the spine and brain, all as support for my opinion that 8" at short distance while happy and hunky dory on the range is likely insufficient marksmanship skill. Because, as you said, "the purpose is to build surgical accuracy and clean mechanics to fall back on when stress levels pick up..."

    I completely agree that the CNS will more assuredly end the threat, but those shots require the surgical accuracy and clean mechanics we both seem to be advocating.

    I would never argue that shot from the oblique through both lungs and the heart is guaranteed to instantly, but it does have a high likelihood of doing so. When faced head on the shot through the heart will likely damage the spine bringing on at least instantaneous paralysis allowing the destroyed heart or major artery to have it's impact.

    No matter what little differences we might hold, it appears we agree on the larger premise that being a very good shooter is a bone to surviving the gun fight.

    I appreciate you taking the time to share your insights on this thread.

    No worries.

    For oblique shots, I was taught and I teach a method for determining spinal placement shots that works no matter how the target is edged to you. A few guys from this forum has attended courses of mine that have shown the method. As long as you're using the proper ammunition type, you will get adequate and reliable penetration to the spinal area from oblique placement. Oblique show by nature will penetrate the organ structures you're talking about. I've seen a lot of bad guys take shots to the chest at close range and maintain function due to missing the CNS.
     

    Green Eye Tactical

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    Sep 11, 2013
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    Off-topic, but still related and all is good.

    Quick add to that, you're correct about bullseye shooting. We generally put OTC students on a KD range for a month shooting bullseye targets and running aggregate shooting drills in various positions. We do the same thing with pistol at 25yds. That's roughly 180hrs and 25,000 rounds for EACH rifle and pistol done over continuous working days (so there's no atrophied learning), doing nothing but grouping. That's just to establish a base of fundamentals. After that, we transition to picture targets where you have to apply the surgical accuracy where you do not have a definable aiming point. Another good point you had is on the head shots. Head shots are very low percentage shots that are not for beginners. We don't allow students to headhunt, generally until the end of OTC (and then its mainly situational based decisions) or until they move across the hall to squadron.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    May 14, 2008
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    Just figured out why the switch to 9mm.

    Due to "combat accuracy" nobody can hit anything so more rounds are REQUIRED downrange to get the job done, hence the larger capacity
    of the 9mm.
     

    Green Eye Tactical

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    Sep 11, 2013
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    I meant where you run training out of. I can't see signatures on Tapatalk for some reason but I found your site.

    Ah, got it. I don't see sigs on tapatalk either. I have the same business model as most of the other guys in the industry. I'm mobile and run training across the country. If you google Green Eye Tactical, the website / Facebook page / YouTube channel will pop up. There's 8 hrs worth of free videos on the YouTube channel as well.
     
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