Check status of buyer's LTC?

[txinvestigator]

Not living in fear, when I spend my money I set the terms of how I spend it, not trolling the forum but sure learning what bugs a lot of people here. Next argument will probably be "does the gun have a safety?"
I have no interest in fighting with people about what I do. I don't care if you don't want something or do want something and the whole argument is stupid. I don't know why this topic even gets people riled up. Please, buy and sell as you wish and leave me in peace to buy and sell as I wish. Calling me names because I use a BOS is just uncalled for. I have not and will not call you anything negative unless your name is Michael Bloomberg. Have a good day forum members.

Yet you continue to respond.

 

[Bithabus]

Why do you keep pushing the point? I said truce. That means we will not argue the point anymore. People can agree to disagree and not leave calling each other names. I respect your opinion.

It's not my opinion. The BOS issue is a matter of fact, which means it can be verified through research. We are not arguing about religion or which women you find attractive.

First step is to search this forum for old BOS threads.

 

[Glenn B]

Because going to an FFL when there is no requirement to only encourages proponents of universal background checks. You may not see the harm in doing it for a sale here and a sale there, but you fail to take into account that your actions probably influence others too.
Newbies and ignorant gun owners start seeing ads requiring FFL to transfer a private sale and they themselves start to do the same. Next thing you know it just becomes the way it's done. It's just what anti gunners would love to see as it will make their job easier pushing for something that 60%+ of our community already does.

As I was trying to say, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. If you do not like how I handle my business, after all: It is my business to do as I please. Do not try to make up fantasy balderdash about how me doing it that way will change the world of the anti-gun fanatics for the better because I am doing just what they want. I am buying and selling guns - collecting guns, shooting guns - enjoying guns and my liberty and rights relative to them - as I care to do so - within the law. The lefties do not want that at all.

As for you saying I may not see the harm in what I am doing - get off of your high horse. It is not me not taking into account my actions, it is guys like you trying to push your way onto others like me who are doing our business our own way that is a problem. You sound just like the lefties - unless it is your way everyone else is wrong. I do not care how you do your business, it is yours to do just as my business is mine to do. That is part of the free market system. Don't like the way I do it - then do not buy or sell to me, that is the plain and simple solution but do not preach to me in your pompous self righteous manner about me not seeing the harm of doing it my way.

As for me, I get some sort of written record of every gun I buy or sell whether it be a bill of sale, a receipt (essentially the same thing as a BOS), an invoice, printed copies of GunBroker transactions, copies of communications with buyer/sellers, copies of shipping documents if I ship, copies of money orders if I bought, and so on. If you think that is gun control or think it is bad business - good for you. I think it is the only way to do a firearms transaction (and I am not talking commercial sales or purchases of firearms but personal ones). As I said, you do it your way and I will do it mine but mine is my business to do - not yours.

 

[Renegade]

I am buying and selling guns

As for me, I get some sort of written record of every gun I buy or sell whether it be a bill of sale, a receipt (essentially the same thing as a BOS), an invoice, printed copies of GunBroker transactions, copies of communications with buyer/sellers, copies of shipping documents if I ship, copies of money orders if I bought, and so on.

John Shipley, is that you?

 

[Glenn B]

John Shipley, is that you?

No, I think my name is there for you to see and it most definitely is not John Shipley. Resorting to innuendo gets you what - hugs from those on your side of the issue? It certainly does little to nothing to further the discussion.

 

[Renegade]

No, I think my name is there for you to see and it most definitely is not John Shipley. Resorting to innuendo gets you what - hugs from those on your side of the issue? It certainly does little to nothing to further the discussion.

John Shipley bought and sold guns. He kept records, just like you. His record keeping was used against him and he went to Federal Prison. Right now the only difference is none of the guns you have sold has been traced back from Mexico. Good Luck.

 

[Bithabus]

As I was trying to say, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. If you do not like how I handle my business, after all: It is my business to do as I please. Do not try to make up fantasy balderdash about how me doing it that way will change the world of the anti-gun fanatics for the better because I am doing just what they want. I am buying and selling guns - collecting guns, shooting guns - enjoying guns and my liberty and rights relative to them - as I care to do so - within the law. The lefties do not want that at all.

As for you saying I may not see the harm in what I am doing - get off of your high horse. It is not me not taking into account my actions, it is guys like you trying to push your way onto others like me who are doing our business our own way that is a problem. You sound just like the lefties - unless it is your way everyone else is wrong. I do not care how you do your business, it is yours to do just as my business is mine to do. That is part of the free market system. Don't like the way I do it - then do not buy or sell to me, that is the plain and simple solution but do not preach to me in your pompous self righteous manner about me not seeing the harm of doing it my way.

As for me, I get some sort of written record of every gun I buy or sell whether it be a bill of sale, a receipt (essentially the same thing as a BOS), an invoice, printed copies of GunBroker transactions, copies of communications with buyer/sellers, copies of shipping documents if I ship, copies of money orders if I bought, and so on. If you think that is gun control or think it is bad business - good for you. I think it is the only way to do a firearms transaction (and I am not talking commercial sales or purchases of firearms but personal ones). As I said, you do it your way and I will do it mine but mine is my business to do - not yours.

You have bought their narrative. Hook, line, and sinker. You've become a collaborator whether you know it or not.

 

[TexasRedneck]

As I was trying to say, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. If you do not like how I handle my business, after all: It is my business to do as I please.

You're missing the larger issue here - those "records" you speak so highly of can be used against you in court - just as they were against John. You really should do some in-depth research into it rather than take the opinions of others as gospel. Further - that BOS could be used by a thief to trace back guns to others when he breaks into the house of someone YOU bought a gun from. It's happened.

 

[Southpaw]

it is guys like you trying to push your way onto others like me who are doing our business our own way that is a problem.

Can you please explain how my opposing view point is creating problems?

 

[TexasRedneck]

Can you please explain how my opposing view point is creating problems?

Under the New Liberal World rules, if you don't agree, you're creating a problem.

 

[Whistler]

 

[Glenn B]

Can you please explain how my opposing view point is creating problems?

It is not that you have an opposing viewpoint, it is as much as any of you keep trying to push it on me to your viewpoint and are saying I am at fault in some way for carrying out my affairs the way I choose to carry them out. As I keep saying and will say until I am cold in the grave, my personal sales of firearms are mine to carry out within the law as yours are yours.

You're missing the larger issue here - those "records" you speak so highly of can be used against you in court - just as they were against John. You really should do some in-depth research into it rather than take the opinions of others as gospel. Further - that BOS could be used by a thief to trace back guns to others when he breaks into the house of someone YOU bought a gun from. It's happened.

I am not missing any point. I keep records of all my sales, if you do not like it, tough noogies (in the words of Sister Walter Phillip, Dominican order). In fact, when I sell a C&R gun - I am required to keep certain records of the sales. Most guns I would even consider selling are in fact C&R guns. If I choose to keep additional records, so what - while you can spout off all you want about how you think I should run my affairs, I think it is not your business to tell me how to carry out my affairs as if your way is the only right way. The problem is the liberal mindset you are espousing, that you or others should control what I do - as in govern me because only you can be right when it comes to how I do things.

As for criminals tracking guns back, I guess all they need is to look at my bound book or to steal my computer, or hack my GunBroker account, or to look at the receipts I have for guns I have bought. They would all allow a criminal to do likewise - as would hacking this site and viewing my PMs about a gun I bought from another member on these forums. I recently bought a C&R pistol from a forum member - we had to share C&R licenses between us. The C&Rs have all the info a thief, burglar, crazed madman could need to find either of us. The PMs we sent to one another likewise had a lot of our personal info. Should I not do that - exchange C&Rs or personal info via PMs?

As for the PMs: Please don't tell me this site is secure, if a hacker can get into Pentagon computer files or big business computer files, they certainly could hack a site like this if the so desired. So, if you post a gun here for sale, could not a criminal - intent on stealing your firearms - set up a deal with you and ask you where to send payment in the form of a money order - then when you are waiting for payment your house is broken into and your guns stolen (or maybe he'd wait 6 months to do that). Would you tell him your address thinking it a legitimate sale? Could happen just as easily as someone breaking into my house and stealing my bound book, maybe easier because an intruder like a burglar might get shot in my place or attacked by my dog.

Anyway, you can continue to be worried or concerned about whether or not to use a bill of sale, I will continue what I believe are best business practices when I make a personal non-commercial sale of a firearms and will also continue to follow the law & rules relative to my C&R. I also will continue to believe that I have nothing to fear relative to any BOS being used against me in court because I do everything legally and up front and in no way even move to the edge of the law where something I do possibly could be construed a prosecutable offense by an honest prosecutor.

Have a nice day, no more on this discussion from me as it is apparent it is pointless to keep discussing it as none of us with an opposing view on this topic apparently will agree with the other's way; although as I have said - you are free to do it your way.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[BRD@66]

Maybe it's time for a sub-forum titled BOS.

 

[Renegade]

I will continue what I believe are best business practices when I make a personal non-commercial sale of a firearms

I would like to hear why one thinks BOS and records is a best business practice, given the overwhelming evidence to contrary. I would switch if it truly were shown to be the best practice.

One would think if it were so good tha practicioners would be able to easily show with evidence how well it works. But nobody has ever been able to that.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I think my comments were fairly presented and without rancor, but you obviously don't practice what you preach. Doesn't matter any to me - do your little "I AM RIGHT" dance over there in your corner.

 

[DoubleDuty]

If a person you are selling to or buying from wants a bill of sale do whatever you want. Personally a bos provides no benefit for me.

 

[45tex]

And coupled with a due diligence verification of the buyers LTC and anus region the BOS is GTG.

 

[Bithabus]

This is why universal background checks keep getting through. It will happen here too, because of the Fudd ignorance displayed in this thread.

 

[SQLGeek]

We're early for our quarterly BoS thread.

 

[smittyb]

It is not that you have an opposing viewpoint, it is as much as any of you keep trying to push it on me to your viewpoint and are saying I am at fault in some way for carrying out my affairs the way I choose to carry them out. As I keep saying and will say until I am cold in the grave, my personal sales of firearms are mine to carry out within the law as yours are yours.



All the best,
Glenn B

The Libertarian in me is howling out, and I can no longer contain myself.
I agree with the overwhelming sentiment that bills of sale are stupid. Any record is an infringement. I shouldn't need permission from the state to carry either.
All that being said, Glenn is 100% spot on in his belief. We have tried to educate him and HIS business is HIS business to proceed with how he chooses.
If you believe you shouldn't be able to force a baker to make a cake for a wedding, or others shouldn't be able to force their opposing viewpoints or ways of life upon you, then you are a hypocrite for trying to force your ways upon Glenn.










P.S. I bet that will ruffle some feathers.