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Chauvin guilty on all counts

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  • Glenn B

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    The maximum for second degree unintentional homicide in Minnesota is 40 years. Not sure how the other two convictions will come in to play for jail time sentence.
    Well if the sentences are given as consecutive sentences - serving one sentence, then the other(s), one after the other - it quite possibly will amount to life. As I said though, just my guess. I do not believe they will go easy on him because they fear the resulting riots would be worse than those that take place anyway. Of course, this will quite possibly drag on for years due to appeals; then again, granting him appeals may also be affected by politics and they may not grant him any or just one.
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    Younggun

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    Intent was there, in my opinion, in that when he learned a pulse could not be found he did not immediately check it himself or have the other officer check again and then try to resuscitate Floyd.

    This does not prove intent.


    In fact, he did nothing to change the situation that he was, at least in great part, causing. Instead, he stayed in place. That shows intent plainly and without refute in my estimation.

    There’s no evidence of this at all. The situation was more likely, at least in great parts, caused by 4 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE OF FENTANYL.

    It does not matter what Floyd said about all the BS not being able to breathe (he would not have been able to talk), or being claustrophobic and thus could not get in the police car (after he was just in another car with a problem).

    It matters when we are supposed to believe that Chauvin should have treated “I can’t breath” as a serious issue despite having already heard multiple lies.


    What was important, toward intent, is that another trained police officer (who almost undoubtedly was trained to check for a a pulse) is the one who said he could not find the pulse. That was not BS coming from Floyd - that was a brother officer telling Chauvin, in sum & substance, that there was very likely a medical emergency that had stopped Floyd's heartbeat. Chauvin disregarded that and continued to apply pressure to Floyd's neck

    Back.

    and quite likely his carotid artery.

    ME testified that there was no evidence of this.

    How is it that you do not see that as intent to kill him.

    There’s a special thing in our justice system called “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Nothing you’ve said meets that standard.


    Was Chauvin just trying to continue to restrain a man whose heart had stopped instead of trying to kill him; if so why instead iof assisting him medically?


    It was said in court that LE are trained to restrain until medical personnel arrive on scene. Maybe he was distracted by the mob of morons screaming at him for doing his job.


    Maybe he thought it was okay to continue kneeling because he thought Floyd was alreasy dead - is that it?

    Maybe. Sounds like a reason to doubt he continued doing it hoping he’d die. Maybe he knew the mod of idiots might turn violent if they found out the guy with 4 times the lethal dose of fentanyl just died from OD, and might try to blame the cops for it so they held fast waiting on backup.



    Think of that but - why would he continue to restrain him if his heart had apparently stopped? The only thing I can think of is to assure Floyd would die and be beyond ressucitation.

    Maybe Chauvin doesn’t think in such twisted ways. But your have conjecture and last I checked that doesn’t meet the burden of proof.

    Do you somehow think Chauvin thought the good health fairy was going to make things better and that he simply restraining Floyd and was not making things worse by continuing what he was doing? Take whatever emotion you have relative to this case and throw it out the window and look at it objectively.

    Emotion, lol. When the first video broke I said Chauvin should go to jail. But when the evidence came out I threw out the emotion I had relative to the case and looked at the facts. The facts say Floyd is dead because he took way too much fentanyl. There is absolutely not evidence of intent to kill (your conjecture doesn’t count) and at best there might be a case for manslaughter.

    Chauvin would have no motive to kill Floyd. And there is nothing in his career that points to him having anger issues or other problems interacting with the public.


    Take whatever emotions you have tied to this case and throw them out. Look at the facts and don’t make up motives in your mind. There is no case for murder.


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    Rhino

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    I'd like to add to that, The Defense doesn't have to prove innocence, The State has to prove guilt. IMO, that burden wasn't met based on the evidence I have seen so far.
    The jury disagreed, people like me, too, at least on the manslaughter count. Shrug? Can we accept the jury's choice?
     

    Younggun

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    Dude, you are religiously committed to defending the man. Maybe take a step back and ask yourself why?

    I’m religiously committed to pointing out that our justice system is being bent by the media and leftist rioters and the state attempting to scapegoat someone.


    If defending Chauvin is part of that, so be it.


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    Rhino

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    I accidentally "liked" your post. Far from it man.

    He is not "defending the man" . He is deriding the 2nd degree murder conviction. Reasonable Doubt is not a complicated concept.
    I'm not for the murder conviction myself, but the manslaughter seems like it could and should stick.

    Also, I could care less about likes... FWIW
     

    Axxe55

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    Funny thing is, @Younggun and I have a somewhat contentious relationship on this forum, but in the beginning months ago, when Chauvin was arrested on murder charges, he and I were sort of in the same boat thinking Chauvin was guilty, or at least the appearance of being guilty, based on the limited information available at the time. Both us seeing newer information and some of the evidence and testimony coming from the trial, have made 180 turns in what we think and believe of the case now.

    So, neither he, nor I have an emotional stake in this case. Just that IMO, I'm not seeing Chauvin being guilty of murder.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    I have agree with @cycleguy2300 on this. So are going to allow the general public to dictate what LE officers can or can't do, or what they are legally authorized to do in enforcing the law?

    I'm not saying Chauvin is totally blameless, but action or inaction on his part I'm seeing as negligence, not murder. He was also performing a restraint that was department approved. If the method of restraint was contributing factor in Floyd's death, then the department is responsible for approving that restraint method and not Chauvin for using it. That tells me they threw Chauvin to the wolves for political expediency and nothing more.
    Don't mistake my belief that Chauvin was railroaded for thinking he did a great job or was a good guy or should continue being a cop, I just don't think his behavior was criminal.

    Look at the shooting in Ohio where a suspect was shot in the act of stabbing someone. What does grey hoodie guy start saying? (Note: He tried to kick someone in the head seconds before...)

    Bystanders can provide info if they are a witness, but I cannot recall an instance where the street lawyers provided good or correct info to me or the person I was dealing with. I listen (sort of) because I know I am not perfect, but as of now never have they been right in their evaluation of my tactics or decisions. Chauvin, as I understand it, was within his training and policy so people yelling for him to change what he was doing was likely being processed as "I'm doing what I was trained, I'm good". I am trained to go to a recovery position asap, but he wasn't iirc. Now, just because you are within policy doesn't mean rolling him to his side was a violation, but folks on the street yelling doesn't trump law and policy. Acting within policy has always been held as the officer acting in good faith and the liability is on the dept, here it seems to have changed.


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    Axxe55

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    I also think murder's a stretch... but I can see how someone could get there.

    Sad fact of life, this was never about Chauvin personally and could have been anyone. It was a media circus, and a guilty verdict was decided months ago before the trial ever started. The prosecution, the media and everyone involved knew this was high profile trial with serious implications, and knew that a wrong verdict could set off a powderkeg.

    This trial was never about finding the truth, which is what any, and every trial is suppose to be about and finding justice. Chauvin was tried in the media months ago, by the court of public opinion. I seriously doubt every jury member went into that trial as an impartial viewer of the facts and evidence of that case. I suspect, regardless of what they really said, that some probably already had their minds made up, that Chauvin, was guilty of murder, or at the very least, had to be the sacrificial lamb for the masses to quiet things down.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    There’s a reason our country chose civilian leadership and oversight rather than military, and why elected sheriffs are more Constitutional than police. There’s a bad tendency to let these “policies” exist without adequate justification or moral examination. I completely disagree and think that the civilian outrage was justified.
    Also, Nuremberg. Bad policies and law don’t excuse the moral culpability of the individual.

    These policies had nothing to do with morals and the justification is Floyd fought.

    Floyd fights (2x?) And EMS is called. The JUSTIFICATION for keeping him on his stomach was an outdated policy based on science, not morals. He needs to be restrained (handcuffed) because he is under arrest and fighting. He is kept on his stomach because that is NORMALLY safe, but over the last few years we have learned some folks can die in that position. Old policies across the country allowed for folks to be kept on their stomachs for reasonable amounts of time (like for EMS to arrive...) their was nothing amoral or without justification, they just hadn't learned about a fact. A surgeon of old not washing hands because he hadn't heard of germs isn't amoral or lacking justification if his patient dies from an infection afterwards. It sucks, and in this case the dept probably SHOULD have known, but the error is with the dept, not the officer

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    cycleguy2300

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    No he was not innocent and what his "admirers" say has nothing to do with whether or not he was killed by Chauvin. That he was an absolute piece of dirt also has nothing to do with him having been murdered; yet, that he is now the poster boy for BLM and ANTIFA is still almost mind boggling to me. He was, in my estimation, murdered or at the very least the victim of manslaughter. I think it murder because of the time Chauvin spent on his neck after being told no pulse could be found.

    That this is helping to defund LE departments is a crying shame but that is almost pure politics. The scum of the earth are trying to make the most of it to benefit their political careers and are not doing so out of any true sense of seeking justice.
    I mostly agree with you, but let me ask this for all to consider: How much pressure was Chauvin exerting on Floyd's neck?

    Try kneeling down and putting you knee on something about "neck" high. You can easily vary the pressure from light touch to full weight. We don't know how much weight Chauvin had on Floyd's neck. Once there was no pulse it's time for CPR, but not doing CPR doesn't amount to manslaughter, or murder.

    The questions I saw as relevant were these three:
    1)is it reasonable that the opiod OD killed Floyd? If Y, then NG, if N see #2

    2)Was it Chauvin's actions that killed Floyd?
    If Y see #3, if N, then NG

    3)And if Chauvin's actions killed him, were they within law and policy? If Y then NG, if N, guilty.

    I answer Y to #1. I think not doing anything after the pulse stopped is disgusting, and a dereliction of duty, but it isn't criminal.

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    cycleguy2300

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    Murder 1st: (a) Murder perpetrated by means of poison, lying in wait, or any other willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. (Source.)

    I already have explained why I believe it premeditated. I think I how I believe it beyond a reasonable doubt should be easily deciphered from what I already wrote. So, now I've told you. What say you without emotion, without such implied challenges as to my veracity about my career as "You say you were in LE." and with you looking at it from a purely objective point of view.

    View attachment 253302

    Nice beard dude!!!

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    cycleguy2300

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    Your missing the "and" it was not premeditated

    Premeditated = Planned
    To GlennB's point premiditated/planned can be as simple as "No pulse? Sweet, I'm going to keep pressure on here until he dies."

    I DO NOT think that is what happened, but any planned acts, as simple as thinking it makes it premeditation.

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    rotor

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    There’s no evidence of this at all. The situation was more likely, at least in great parts, caused by 4 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE OF FENTANYL.
    For a chronic abuser, I would speculate that the Fentanyl dose might not have much effect on Floyd. Speculation only.
     

    TheDan

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    Waiting for someone to provide some kind of evidence that the restraint used in Floyd was actually fatal in any other case. Maybe in one of the 200+ times it was used in that department in the previous year.
    I don't think there's much issue with the restraint, but maybe the procedure of using it. If I understand the SOP correctly, someone is restrained until they calm down, and then paramedics are called. A dying animal will seem quite excited until it expires. Seems like the best thing to do when someone is having an unnatural freak out is to call EMS first and only restrain them to strap them onto a gurney.
     
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