Carrying a rifle in a bug out situation?

[birddog]

A lot of wisdom in this thread, despite the various perspectives.

Trying to agree on a subject this complicated is like everyone agreeing on the type of woman or man they should marry. Ain’t gonna happen.

 

[oldag]

Yeah that was my reasoning for considering an AR15 pistol. I just don't know if I want people to see me carrying it if there is some kind of chaos out in the streets.

I think am leaning towards the AR 7 survival rifle in my backpack.
If I'm trying to get out of a suburban area, I feel like a 9mm with some extra mags on my belt should be sufficient, however correct me if you think I am wrong. I've only been in the states for 2 years now and although I love them; I'm no expert on firearms.

If there is violence and chaos in the streets, my first concern would be protecting my family and those around me. And that means a rifle (either AR pistol or carbine). In that scenario, you might not have time to get the AR7 out and assemble it.

 

[oldag]

An AR pistol is a piss poor survival weapon. It’s not a pistol, not a rifle, and it sucks at either role.

I respectfully disagree entirely. Look at the facts. A .308 or 7.62x39 coming out of a short barrel still packs a wallop.

 

[wileycoyote]

having owned around a dozen AR 7 survival rifles over the last 45 years, i'm totally unimpressed with them. all five brands i've owned have been unreliable even with factory mags (holding only 8-rds and kinda cheesy), triggers awful, the offset stock uncomfortable, the self-contained unit doesn't allow to spare mags/ammo (except for the newest version), not entirely waterproof so will sink eventually, kinda slow to put together, and as much as i prefer peep sights over open sights the ones on the AR7 suck.

so why did i keep buying them? a couple years after dumping each i'd forget how much i hated them, yet fall for the allure of such a survival concept and convince myself i hadn't given them a real try. duh...

it would do if it was the only firearm available, but given a choice i'd buy something else that was well designed and well made.

if a small day-bag-packable "supported" 22LR was my choice for this application, i'd look at a braced ruger take down changer pistol. fyi - brace adapters/folders for this model are now readily available online.

even better would be to suppress it, after shortening the barrel back to 4".

 

[birddog]

I respectfully disagree entirely. Look at the facts. A .308 or 7.62x39 coming out of a short barrel still packs a wallop.

I didn’t realize we were discussing 308/7.62 caliber firearms.

Well, fwiw, try firing that short barreled pistol 308 accurately and rapidly at stand-off engagement distances and see how easy it is to hit what you’re aiming at.

I’ve trained extensively with a variety of firearms, that doesn’t mean anything other than I know what I like and dislike. I do know that the ballistics of a short barrel aren’t comparable when using off the shelf ammo. In a SHTF scenario where LE isn’t available and law and order is nonexistent, if I need a lot of firepower, a mod to a glock can fill any need I have for a SMG.

The average joe doesn’t have the resources to burn 5000 rounds a week to become proficient with a firearm. Hence the reason I tend to distill advice to the lowest common denominator. That’s if I offer my opinion in the first place regarding AR’s. Which I tend to avoid for this very reason.

 

[birddog]

having owned around a dozen AR 7 survival rifles over the last 45 years, i'm totally unimpressed with them. all five brands i've owned have been unreliable even with factory mags (holding only 8-rds and kinda cheesy), triggers awful, the offset stock uncomfortable, the self-contained unit doesn't allow to spare mags/ammo (except for the newest version), not entirely waterproof so will sink eventually, kinda slow to put together, and as much as i prefer peep sights over open sights the ones on the AR7 suck.

so why did i keep buying them? a couple years after dumping each i'd forget how much i hated them, yet fall for the allure of such a survival concept and convince myself i hadn't given them a real try. duh...

it would do if it was the only firearm available, but given a choice i'd buy something else that was well designed and well made.

if a small day-bag-packable "supported" 22LR was my choice for this application, i'd look at a braced ruger take down changer pistol. fyi - brace adapters/folders for this model are now readily available online.

even better would be to suppress it, after shortening the barrel back to 4".

View attachment 168144

That would be cool to have under any circumstances. Especially with a 4 inch barrel as you suggested.

 

[oldag]

I didn’t realize we were discussing 308/7.62 caliber firearms.

Well, fwiw, try firing that short barreled pistol 308 accurately and rapidly at stand-off engagement distances and see how easy it is to hit what you’re aiming at.

I’ve trained extensively with a variety of firearms, that doesn’t mean anything other than I know what I like and dislike. I do know that the ballistics of a short barrel aren’t comparable when using off the shelf ammo. In a SHTF scenario where LE isn’t available and law and order is nonexistent, if I need a lot of firepower, a mod to a glock can fill any need I have for a SMG.

The average joe doesn’t have the resources to burn 5000 rounds a week to become proficient with a firearm. Hence the reason I tend to distill advice to the lowest common denominator. That’s if I offer my opinion in the first place regarding AR’s. Which I tend to avoid for this very reason.

If I need to shoot more than 100 or so yards, then odds are strong that I will be moving rather than sitting in a firefight. All my AR pistols (.308 and 7.62) have Sig braces on them. And all have CMC brakes which drastically reduce muzzle rise. So control is not really any more an issue than with a carbine.

 

[birddog]

Have you ever been shot at. Or in a gunfight.

It tends to affect the ability to accurately put fires on a target. A short barrel makes it significantly more so when under stress. Not saying at can’t be done, just sayin...

AG, that’s just my $.02 based on experience. Take it for what it’s worth.

 

[benenglish]

That would be cool to have under any circumstances. Especially with a 4 inch barrel as you suggested.

MAC did a nice video on that concept.

 

[Darkpriest667]

If I need to shoot more than 100 or so yards, then odds are strong that I will be moving rather than sitting in a firefight. All my AR pistols (.308 and 7.62) have Sig braces on them. And all have CMC brakes which drastically reduce muzzle rise. So control is not really any more an issue than with a carbine.

Most people don't make 100 yard shots in these situations anyway. 100 yards of open terrain is just really rare except in places like West Texas or on roads.


Also about the earlier post, no panties in a wad. Wasn't aiming at you directly, just lots of people act like they live in a hardened position and they don't. I agree with your sentiment. Community and neighbors will become big at that point, but no one is riding out of those scenarios solo.

 

[wileycoyote]

thnx benenglish, his vid does a fine job. me, i'd add a HERA folding adapter too.

this borrowed image gives an idea of the size (shows a different brand folder and shorter bbl w/can)

 

[birddog]

MAC did a nice video on that concept.

Ben, that’s going on my bucket list

 

[oldag]

Have you ever been shot at. Or in a gunfight.

It tends to affect the ability to accurately put fires on a target. A short barrel makes it significantly more so when under stress. Not saying at can’t be done, just sayin...

AG, that’s just my $.02 based on experience. Take it for what it’s worth.

When we are talking about AR pistols being fired without being up against a shoulder (e.g., no brace that accidentally gets in the way of the shoulder...), I wholeheartedly agree. For most folks the accuracy will just not be there at 100-200 yards. I know it would not be for me.

 

[GoPappy]

Interesting topic. I've been thinking about this some. One of my main considerations is the weight of ammo. Two 500 round bricks of .22lr weighs very little, which has me leaning towards a .22LR carbine like my Beretta ARX160 with several 30 round mags loaded up and a few bricks in the bugout bag.

 

[wileycoyote]

when firing a braced 11" barreled 556 AR from a bench, with the back of the brace 1" off my shoulder, i have no problem making rapid hits out to 400yds.

or at 100yds, starting from a standing ready position (angled down 45-degrees), its not a problem making consistent hits in 1.5 seconds or under, on a 14x16 steel plate.

i find the only negs to AR pistols are: loss of velocity, blast being louder, and being limited to no-shoulder-contact.

on the other hand, the blast hasn't been any issue with subsonic 300BLK thru a can. its nearly as quiet as a suppressed 9mm or 22LR.

plus the pistol form is handier, being lighter in weight and shorter (particularly helpful when adding a can). and in many states the pistol is allowed to be carried loaded within a vehicle, whereas the rifle may not be.

in other words, i find very little is given up by going from an AR rifle to a braced AR pistol.

 

[birddog]

When we are talking about AR pistols being fired without being up against a shoulder (e.g., no brace that accidentally gets in the way of the shoulder...), I wholeheartedly agree. For most folks the accuracy will just not be there at 100-200 yards. I know it would not be for me.

How does your pistols handle with a brace, are you able to move and still shoot accurately over 100 yards?

My curiousity is piqued, any chance you could post a pic of what you’re referencing with the specs, i.e. twist, preferred ammo, etc?

I’m always open to new and better ways ways to solve a prob. Convince me, I’m all ears

 

[Fosty 2.0]

If there is violence and chaos in the streets, my first concern would be protecting my family and those around me. And that means a rifle (either AR pistol or carbine). In that scenario, you might not have time to get the AR7 out and assemble it.

I did mention that I would be carrying a handgun. Either a CZ P07 or Glock 23.

 

[Fosty 2.0]

i find the only negs to AR pistols are: loss of velocity, blast being louder, and being limited to no-shoulder-contact.

Why can't you have shoulder contact?

 

[benenglish]

this borrowed image...

...is not built about the Copper Custom adapter that fits the original Ruger polymer stock. What stock is that?

 

[birddog]

Personally, I just don’t see the benefit of compromise. Not when the price for failure is seeing my loved ones harmed.

It may have to do with training and familiarity, I tend to stick with what I know. Having seen up close and personal some seriously crazy ninja stupidity out in the field and the end result, I’m not willing to risk my life on an unknown.

If society breaks down, the last place my weapon is going to be is concealed in a bag where I can’t access it. Im not working a VIP detail, I’m protecting me and my own. The thought that someone would plan their load out around that factor is odd. That’s putting it nicely. And that’s my opinion, take it for what you will.

I need to stay out of these threads...