Are you prepared after the defense incident to interact with the police?

[DougC]

Massad Ayoob details interacting with law enforcement after a self defense incident. All too often in discussions of firearms and their use nothing is mentioned on what happens afterwards and the police show up. Be prepared before/during/after for self defense incident.

BTW: what legal counsel are you going to contact if needed. I signed up with a legal defense fund as insurance. I plan and act like I will never use it...just like the fire extinguisher in the house just in case.

In another interview Massad Ayoob offers further comments about police interaction after self-defense incident.

 

[pronstar]

IMHO, and I’m not a lawyer…that’s way too much talking.

Invoke your right to silence.
Use it.

There isn’t a defense attorney alive who’s ever said “I’m so glad my client talked to the police without me”.




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[mountainbull]

Its like talking to an inspector or game warden, answer truthfully but only answer there questions.
Don't add to the conversation.

Also, comply with there orders, don't resist
In my humble opinion

 

[rp-]

BTW: what legal counsel are you going to contact if needed. I signed up with a legal defense fund as insurance. I plan and act like I will never use it...just like the fire extinguisher in the house just in case.

I weighed a few of these insurances and went with firearms legal protection. I learned about them from John Correa of A.S.P. I think it's $400 a year to cover me and my wife.

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[toddnjoyce]

Keep in mind Ayoob’s perspective is that of an expert witness so his advise coaches towards the questionable justification side of a self defense shooting.

I don’t use a legal defense service plan, but do have the number of an experienced criminal defense attorney on my phone and on my wife’s phone.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

It's my understanding that those legal defense companies don't pay for anything if you are in the wrong.

Is this correct?

 

[Axxe55]

Want to know what to say to LE if you are involved in a self defense type shooting?

Consult with an attorney. Even if you have to pay a consultation fee, it is money well spent that could keep you out of jail.

A really good friend of mine wrote this post on advising on the carrying of firearm for self defense back in 2012. An extremely good and well thought out post.

Read this before you decide to carry!

Note to ALL: This is a canebrake process and in no way to be taken as a "MUST FOLLOW" set of instructions to be followed by the sheeple herd or other Nancy Boys engaged in interwebz flaming. It is however, a philosophy applied by this 66 year old gun totin' codger that has served him well.

Regardless of whether justified or not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

If you are involved in a shooting and are the survivor, this is the canebrake MUST DO:

During the first second of post-shooting quiet, do a tactical reload and store the ejected, but not yet empty mag in a convenient pocket, DO NOT put it in your mag pouch! This will prevent you from grabbing it later thinking its fresh. During this reload do a 360 sweep clearing the area for additional BGs.

Draw down on the Bad Guy's center mass and watch his hands as you approach. Hands kill! Everything else is just a distraction! Clear the Tango of any weapons and make sure he is no longer a threat. DO NOT shoot again unless he moves at you. By this time you will more than likely be on someone's candid camera!

If the Tango is no longer a threat, safe and holster your weapon. The officers responding have no idea what has happened, won't know who the good guy is, won't know who the bad guy is, and if they find you standing over a body with a gun in your hand you're likely to get a bad reaction.

While keeping a safe distance, stay alert! This guy was trying to kill you just minutes ago! Continue your 360 sweeps for any BG’s that may show up! Start yelling "CALL 911! CALL EMS!". DO THIS until someone confirms they have called!

If you are alone, use your cell phone to call 911 and tell them "There has been a shooting at **your location**, get here fast!" and say nothing more. Do Not hang up and set the phone down while still connected to the 911 operator allowing then to find you. Do not speak to anyone, frequently visually clear the area for BGs and wait until the police/EMS arrives. When the first responders arrive, hurry them to the Tango to provide assistance. I don't care a rat's bottom about the Tango but what I do care about is having the first responder put in his report that when he rolled up on the scene that I was trying to save the Tango’s life! That single statement in his report will show contrition on my part and instantly protect me from a prosecutor trying to portray me as the CCW permit holder and a blood-thirsty vigilante.

When asked by the police the only thing you EVER say is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please let me speak with my attorney. I assure you that you will have my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney."

You will need to surrender your identification, CCW license and weapon. With this completed, request to be released to return home, you’re about to be sick. If everything is in order they should return your ID and CCWL and let you go. With the exception of yes or no answers to ID questions or to point out the location of the Tango's weapon, DO NOT answer any other questions! You have invoked the attorney card and are not required to speak to them. You are upset, sick and want to go home! By now they have run and verified your info, know where you live and should let you go.

If the police persist with questioning you do have an option. If you are convinced they intend to run you through the grinder tell them you are so upset that you are having chest pains. (You may actually be having chest pains.) They will have to send you to the hospital and admit you to intensive care, probably for 24 hours. You cannot be questioned further and certainly not in intensive care. You will then have time to THINK, gather your composure and visit with your lawyer. This will also be part of your record as to how upset and afraid you really were.

Remember it is the LEO's job to produce evidence, he is not your friend and anything you say can be used against you. Keep your mouth shut!

Be sure you have a lawyer prior to carrying. Call the attorney now. If it's late, you will probably get a service or machine. Go on record then, do not wait until you can speak to him in person and leave this message; "This is (You) and I require your services for a shooting I was involved in." NEVER (did I say never?) say you shot somebody, not to anyone other than your retained lawyer and not even to him on the phone.

If you re-read the above you will notice you have NOT once said you shot your gun much less the Tango. You have not lied but more importantly, you have not provided the Tango's legal defense team anything they can run with. This is very important. Invoke the attorney card and say nothing, even when questioned about you gun being fully loaded. You are not required to! Keep saying, "I'm sick and need to go home."



CCW is what I perceive to be the most personally responsible decision I have made third only to my wedding vows and active service to this great country. Concealed carry is NOT playing cowboys and indians (pardon my age tell) and I’m afraid that’s exactly what many are doing today. When we post encounters as entertainment rather than a positive outcome from our correct decisions we only feed to a “Denny Crain” type response.

When you decide to carry a concealed weapon, you have burdened yourself with tremendous responsibilities including, but not limited to, physical fitness, firearm and CQB training, in-depth knowledge and handling skills of your weapon of choice and the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license.

When your 'go criteria' are met, you MUST draw your concealed carry and if nothing else has changed, it’s not time to talk, it's time to use the deadly force you have trained to render. If that reaction isn’t one smooth ‘muscle memory’, you’re dead! PLEASE NOTICE: I did not say if you draw you must shoot. That’s why I included the “CHANGE” caveat because if the BG turned and ran I would clear the area and then reholster.

I would also report the incidence to the local police/county sheriff. This gives them a heads-up on the BG in their area and protects me for going non-concealed. Brandishing, here in South Florida, is prosecuted harshly to control the gangsters and road rage.

There is no fun in concealed carry; it’s a profession that must be executed by professionals. If you do not embrace this school of thought, you have no business being armed. If you don't embrace this, it is my fear that I or my loved ones could become part of your collateral damage.

I need to emphasize the gravity of this carry decision with these two points;

A. Use your head (your most powerful weapon) and only draw and fire your weapon to save you or someone’s life. This is the only righteous shooting. Anything else will find you in a cage or a box. Long before you put yourself in the ‘shoot’ position, you better have completed all the legal requirements that allow you to be there. In addition you must complete the following personal conditions;

1. Training,
2. Understand and accept the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license,
3. Training,
4. The moral mettle to take a life,
5. Training,
6. Know and keep up on the laws covering carry in the location you are armed (political boundaries and building restrictions),
7. Training,
8. At a bare minimum have a gun rights lawyer’s phone number on your cell’s speed dial,
9. Training,
10. Retain that lawyer if you can afford it,
11. and did I mention training?

B. See A or you will get yourself killed!

We are neither a vigilante nor a hired gun, just a survivalist.

 

[DougC]

As they say at the end of the video, you may beat the rap, but not the ride. Its all about 'kicking the can down the road'.

 

[pronstar]

I’ll take temporary jail over hard time in prison any day


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[Axxe55]

That question can't be answered. There are too many factors in play, every self defense incident is going to be different and the circumstances surrounding the incident.

 

[HawkeyeSATX]

The biggest thing to remember, that if you’re in a self defense situation, never…ever…say you killed, or had to shoot someone in self defense.

You always use the terminology, “ I had to neutralize the threat! “
After being a civilian police officer, and am a CHL holder, nothing will stop an ambulance chasing lawyer faster than that statement. It actually makes it harder to have a Johnny on the Spot, money grubbing lawyer’s attack when using that statement.

Plus, another thing! YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT!
Don’t start yammering when the cops show up!! Wait to do that when your lawyer shows up!!


Hawk

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Hawk,

"After being a civilian police officer" as opposed to a military police officer or..?

Not being a smart ass, just curious why you included the word 'civilian'.

Have or did you experience a number of self defense shootings?

If so, did most blather on to their detriment or did some clam up until they had legal representation?

 

[FireInTheWire]

We all know the name of the game. No statement until lawyer is present. You can ID who you are.... and what the bad guy did. If they don't like it, take me downtown until I have my lawyer with me.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Let’s take this left of bang. What do you tell the 911 operator?

 

[Axxe55]

Let’s take this left of bang. What do you tell the 911 operator?

Address of the incident, that there has been a shooting incident, and need LE immediately, and you need medical assistance at that address ASAP.

 

[FireInTheWire]

Let’s take this left of bang. What do you tell the 911 operator?

Someone broke into my house, they are dead on the floor. Need a ambulance and sheriff. Threat is neutralized and situation is under control. My family and I will be armed and locked in our room until we hear from LE.

 

[benenglish]

Redundant threads merged.

 

[HawkeyeSATX]

Hawk,

"After being a civilian police officer" as opposed to a military police officer or..?

Not being a smart ass, just curious why you included the word 'civilian'.

Have or did you experience a number of self defense shootings?

If so, did most blather on to their detriment or did some clam up until they had legal representation?

I was a military police officer for several years. Although you think that the same rules apply for military members under the Constitution, that’s not the case entirely. The military goes by the UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice ). Under that, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent. You don’t have to nervously blab to make yourself look guilty there.
I did respond to several domestic disturbances that involved firearms. And the perps that did the abusing always ran their mouths, and got themselves in far deeper trouble in court than if they would’ve just adhered to their right to remain silent.
I responded to an aftermath of a self defense incident, and the woman did everything correctly, except, after, while being interviewed, she was nervous, but offered WAY too much info.
So…an assistant district attorney, who wanted to make a name for herself, and an anti gunner, brought her up on charges of 2nd degree murder, with lesser charges of manslaughter.
She used her own words against her, orally, and written statements, before her lawyer could get to talk to her.
Thankfully, during the trial, she had a Judge, and criminal defense lawyer, that were worth their weight in salt, and eventually was exonerated of all charges.

So…take it for what it’s worth.


Hawk

 

[leVieux]

It's my understanding that those legal defense companies don't pay for anything if you are in the wrong.

Is this correct?

>

A few years back, I earned the very HARD WAY that if you give a "Hacker" or "Scammer" ANY of your account info, even through their subterfuge, your LifeLock will immediately abandon you.

leVieux
.

 

[leVieux]

Hawk,

"After being a civilian police officer" as opposed to a military police officer or..?

Not being a smart ass, just curious why you included the word 'civilian'.

Have or did you experience a number of self defense shootings?

If so, did most blather on to their detriment or did some clam up until they had legal representation?

We all knew what he meant.