Texas SOT

AR lowers aren't rifles?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Dawico

    Uncoiled
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Oct 15, 2009
    38,009
    96
    Lampasas, Texas

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    The industry moves faster than the law. Lots of "firearms" do not meet the GCA68 definitions. Hence why BATFE tends to "Make Stuff Up".
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    Could lead to the ATF reclassifying AR 15 uppers as firearms.

    Those do not meet the definition either.

    Firearm Frame or Receiver
    That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel. 27 CFR § 478.11.

    In an AR, housing for the hammer and firing mechanism is in lower, housing for bolt and threading for barrel is in upper. So whichever half you use, something is in the other half.
     

    Brains

    One of the idiots
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 9, 2013
    6,905
    96
    Spring
    So neither is the firearm until they are assembled? We are free to purchase the components as we choose, and since we are manufacturing for our own use, no FFL needed at all? I like it.
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    Rhetorical eh?

    They can define anything as anything at any given moment as proven out this past year.

    That scares me.
    E2F356A3-BA1C-48F8-86F0-2A9A36820032.jpeg
     

    Attachments

    • E2F356A3-BA1C-48F8-86F0-2A9A36820032.jpeg
      E2F356A3-BA1C-48F8-86F0-2A9A36820032.jpeg
      24.5 KB · Views: 803

    Big Green

    In Christ Alone
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Mar 5, 2018
    4,641
    96
    College Station
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/t...-15-lower-as-a-firearm-is-in-serious-trouble/

    Ultimately AR lowers don't fit the legal description of actually being a firearm so a few courts have ruled in favor of defendants charged with selling them as unlicensed dealers.

    In the long run I am not sure if this is a good thing or bad.

    A new legal definition of what a firearm is may be bad news.

    Thoughts?
    I don’t see any good from this.

    Serialized uppers, BCGs, barrels? Where will this stop?

    As we will never not have a serialized part, I say leave it the way it is.
     

    rmantoo

    Cranky old fart: Pull my finger
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 9, 2013
    814
    76
    San Angelo

    "can be readily restored to shoot" scares the hell out of me. A simple reading of that clause could easily lead someone -especially if that someone is an atf lackey- to conclude that since shoestrings are readily available, and the device is easily created in a few seconds, that possession of an M1 and shoestrings constitutes constructive possession.
     

    satx78247

    Member, Emeritus
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 23, 2014
    8,479
    96
    78208
    rmantoo,

    Fyi, from late 1939 to at least mid-1943, NZ rebuilt bolt-action SMLE Mark 1** rifles into "a substitute-standard light MG" to fire standard .303 British service ammo; though "clunky-looking" the converted SMEs worked FINE & fired over 480 RPM.
    (Reportedly, the cost of conversion to a machine-rifle was less than 20.oo USD per rifle.)

    Thus, most ANY firearm (& many objects that are NOT firearms at all) can be "readily converted to" a prohibited weapon .

    yours, satx
     
    Last edited:

    TheDan

    deplorable malcontent scofflaw
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 11, 2008
    27,552
    96
    Austin - Rockdale
    Firearm Frame or Receiver
    That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel. 27 CFR § 478.11.

    In an AR, housing for the hammer and firing mechanism is in lower, housing for bolt and threading for barrel is in upper. So whichever half you use, something is in the other half.
    housing for the (hammer or bolt or breechblock) and (firing mechanism)
    That's the upper... Maybe you could argue it's an incomplete "firing mechanism" in only the upper or lower.
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,933
    96
    Spring
    Serialized uppers, BCGs, barrels? Where will this stop?
    Probably somewhere around where the European models stop. In most of those countries, any part that "contains the pressure of firing" (or similar wording) is considered the same as a firearm and must be serialized. The minimum generally turns out to be exactly those things you mentioned - the barrel, the bolt, and whatever holds them.
     

    jordanmills

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 29, 2009
    5,371
    96
    Pearland, TX
    housing for the (hammer or bolt or breechblock) and (firing mechanism)
    That's the upper... Maybe you could argue it's an incomplete "firing mechanism" in only the upper or lower.
    If you make an upper and lower together to sell to someone, then you need to be an FFL and it needs to be serialized. Sounds like anything short of that is selling parts, and it's not a firearm until the upper and lower are assembled.
     
    Top Bottom