AR in 7.62X39

[zackmars]

I mean...If nutting on weapons is your thing, who am I to judge?

I was running out of ideas. I figured it couldn't hurt.

 

[Tank]

I've had excellent luck with a bear creek side charger. It is a lot more accurate than it should be.

This one?

 

[oldag]

PWS makes a great 7.62x39 AR.

 

[Sam7sf]

This one?

I stopped after he started talking about staking.

I'm going to rub people the wrong way but I don't care. Most people who make videos like this just understand cosmetics or what they read online and have no mechanical understanding of much.

First, the gen one charging Allen bolt is not an issue, like many weapons, if you use a torque spec that's right for the fastener. I have witnessed zero back outs when a real torque spec has been applied, plus a bit of carbon build up can happen. Most gun owners just grab a tool and don't know what torque they are applying AND most don't take oil of threads.

Staking...It doesn't take much. If a castle nut or gas key is torqued down to spec, the deformation in the metal doesn't need to be much. A little bit Is a pain in the ass to remove say a castle nut. Plus, some gas keys depending on heat treat and other treatment can be hell to put a good stake into. And all of it because people on the internet say you should. It's just OCD.

I used to do this for work. The myths about this stuff just get me going at times.

Any AR review is not valid in my eyes when they just throw the gun on the table and start talking. Have they stripped it down and checked assembly and parts and mating of parts to be in spec? I'm going off on a rant.

Bottom line: Bear Creek rifles checked out with what was important. Hole locations, gas tube to key flange fit evenly, staking on the key is enough, the staking on the castle nut I corrected but as long as everything is else is gtg I don't give manufactures a hard time about it because It's an easy home fix. The BCG reaming was fine for gas rings. Cam pin after firing had no abnormal spots to say machine work was bad as I have seen on higher end guns...Nothing funny going on with the upper and barrel extension.

I used to judge bear creek because it was cheap stuff...Then I inspected one and was surprised. In most cases the only two things a colt will do better is the castle nut staking and a better finish. Other than that...Is what it is. but that's 5.56x45.

Being this thread is about 7.62x39...Best thing a guy can do is get a CMMG mutant.

 

[BeatTheTunaUp]

This one?

Yeah, I have a gen 2 with a cheap optic and it shoots 1.5 groups at 100. Clusters at 25.

 

[deemus]

I have a BCA 7.62x39 upper. I bought the Stoner AR mags and they work great.

First time out I had issues w firing steel cases ammo. Also it had minimal oil in the action. Got the enhanced firing pin free from them

I bought brass cased ammo and it works great. Planning to try the steel cased stuff again after a couple hundred more rounds to ensure it’s properly broke in.

 

[MTA]

I have a BCA 7.62x39 upper. I bought the Stoner AR mags and they work great.

First time out I had issues w firing steel cases ammo. Also it had minimal oil in the action. Got the enhanced firing pin free from them

I bought brass cased ammo and it works great. Planning to try the steel cased stuff again after a couple hundred more rounds to ensure it’s properly broke in.

I think they ship all their uppers now for x39 with the enhanced firing pin too.

 

[robertc1024]

I think they ship all their uppers now for x39 with the enhanced firing pin too.

Mine did.

 

[Tank]

I stopped after he started talking about staking.

I'm going to rub people the wrong way but I don't care. Most people who make videos like this just understand cosmetics or what they read online and have no mechanical understanding of much.

First, the gen one charging Allen bolt is not an issue, like many weapons, if you use a torque spec that's right for the fastener. I have witnessed zero back outs when a real torque spec has been applied, plus a bit of carbon build up can happen. Most gun owners just grab a tool and don't know what torque they are applying AND most don't take oil of threads.

Staking...It doesn't take much. If a castle nut or gas key is torqued down to spec, the deformation in the metal doesn't need to be much. A little bit Is a pain in the ass to remove say a castle nut. Plus, some gas keys depending on heat treat and other treatment can be hell to put a good stake into. And all of it because people on the internet say you should. It's just OCD.

I used to do this for work. The myths about this stuff just get me going at times.

Any AR review is not valid in my eyes when they just throw the gun on the table and start talking. Have they stripped it down and checked assembly and parts and mating of parts to be in spec? I'm going off on a rant.

Bottom line: Bear Creek rifles checked out with what was important. Hole locations, gas tube to key flange fit evenly, staking on the key is enough, the staking on the castle nut I corrected but as long as everything is else is gtg I don't give manufactures a hard time about it because It's an easy home fix. The BCG reaming was fine for gas rings. Cam pin after firing had no abnormal spots to say machine work was bad as I have seen on higher end guns...Nothing funny going on with the upper and barrel extension.

I used to judge bear creek because it was cheap stuff...Then I inspected one and was surprised. In most cases the only two things a colt will do better is the castle nut staking and a better finish. Other than that...Is what it is. but that's 5.56x45.

Being this thread is about 7.62x39...Best thing a guy can do is get a CMMG mutant.

Actually, I thought your post was very informative. Appreciate that. Real world experience trumps manual reading every time. And there is ALWAYS someone out there that has more experience than I do in ALL subject matter. It has been my experience that those that are offended easily by opinion are those that are not humble enough to understand every subject can be improved upon.

CMMG mutant is on back order. Since I have a couple of extra AR-15s in the collection now, thought it may be fun to get an upper to shoot the stockpile of 7.62 x 39 I found in my garage last week :-)

 

[Sam7sf]

Actually, I thought your post was very informative. Appreciate that. Real world experience trumps manual reading every time. And there is ALWAYS someone out there that has more experience than I do in ALL subject matter. It has been my experience that those that are offended easily by opinion are those that are not humble enough to understand every subject can be improved upon.

CMMG mutant is on back order. Since I have a couple of extra AR-15s in the collection now, thought it may be fun to get an upper to shoot the stockpile of 7.62 x 39 I found in my garage last week :-)

Thanks, considering my post could be viewed as elitist. I just took pride in what (I was the slowest assembler because I checked all guns for my standards) I did. The big problem with the AR market is everyone got into it. People would just copy each other without understanding important mechanical knowledge. Some good examples of what not to do is the CORE brand. I don't think I have seen a rifle that was in spec. Other examples of what out of spec is: Windham, Bushmaster, diamond back, ruger (I was able to salvage my mpr). An example of in spec: Stag (end plate staking not being great...Seems they have always had a drunk guy with a lazy eye do it), colt, dpms (I think the drunk stag guy also works here and does end plate staking), noveske, troy, christensen arms and bear creek (Drunk stag and dpms guy has three jobs) come to find out. While end plate staking is an issue with some I still find these brands to offer all other important parts and mating to be in spec.

Another thing the ar market got into consumers brains is how much cosmetics matter when it doesn't'. Stag for example has gotten more aware...But they operated more on what we called as a parts bin company...Like we did. That just means you toss a bunch of parts into bins for assembly and guess what they get scratched up. Uppers and lowers don't get treated that way, sometimes barrels, but the reality is you can go on YouTube and randomly search any firearm review and find a discussion of fit and finish. I remember one review of a hi point...For under 200 dollars the guy gave negative feedback for finish. Now you got YouTubers that copy each other for review methods and a lot of it isn't useful to the real world.

-Destructive testing. It's not useful. I can see someone jumping and having a gun fall into a puddle or mud. But if you're trying to survive, you're retarded for trying to see how tough your gun is. I can see having to buttstock check someone and an ar15 not being my first choice. I'll have that talk. I can see the need for a gun to survive being ran over. A gun needs to take a beating, but that's a mechanical issue. At the end of the day a gun is a tool. I mean...A lot of people surprisingly care about the brass deflector on an AR and the anodizing getting chipped away. That alone should say how insane people get.

-Reviews starting right out of the box. Reviewers should always take a gun apart and inspect. This way if issues happen down range in testing you possibly aren't left scratching your head. It's always a good idea to take a new gun apart and not see any red flags.

-AK reviews. I'm going to pull my hair out with people that don't understand peening and work hardening. One thing I have always done with any AKM is take a diamond file or fish hook file to smooth out edges created by this to make it smooth, but it's a nothing burger.

The gun industry and community is not like it was when I was in my early 20's. I was all about learning as much as I could and found a lot of others like that. Not just with gunsmithing but the manufacturing process. Also good knowledge of imports. I gotta give a shout out to @Maverick44 because when I first met this guy I had flash backs to being younger. He's one of the rare guys in his age range that loves not just guns but the knowledge and history. I grew up taking care of my guns but used all of them. Bumps and nicks was just part of enjoying life.

 

[Sam7sf]

I really went on a rant again...I forgot to comment on the CMMG. I like it because it worked for me without any issues even with a can. No primer is too thick, no cycling issues with a can, in fact I think it's best with a can. The recoil is a nice slow push while ejection isn't effected at all. I had another guy shoot it that resulted in a feed issue but because it has yet to happen with me I can't say why.

The industry isn't making ar15's in 7.62x39 the right way because it would jack tooling time and cost up. They would need to make IMO because we made a prototype, a one piece feed ramp extension, a much larger gas port (gotta remember the 7.62x39 is lower pressure and a bigger round than 5.56x45 and if you copy SKS gas port sizing, it runs like a raped ape) and the fillet on the firing pin near the tip needs to be turned down. Even with crappy mags I had no issues. My boss at the time even being an 07, put that upper on a post sample lower and it had zero malfunctions.

But the CMMG mutant seems to be the ticket. At least the first generations. Bolt lug thickness is more like for a 308. Magwell is 50/50 on magpuls. So the ones that are too tight I just use for my Sam7 side folder.

 

[zackmars]

Controversial opinion. The gun industry has been on a steady decline since 2008.

 

[oldag]

Controversial opinion. The gun industry has been on a steady decline since 2008.

Some manufacturers' quality took a hit when they started ramping up production so much.

 

[robertc1024]

Update. At the West meet - I was consistently hitting a 3/4 silhoutte plate at ~364(?) yards with mine, factory Sellior & Bellot ammo. I have witnesses. 30+ inch drop - whatever. It was dropping out of the sky, I was still impressed on how it did. I'd only shot steel cased commie filth through it before, but, hot dang - what a truck gun.

​

Vaquero can confirm the distance)

 

[Vaquero]

Update. At the West meet - I was consistently hitting a 3/4 silhoutte plate at ~364(?) yards with mine, factory Sellior & Bellot ammo. I have witnesses. 30+ inch drop - whatever. It was dropping out of the sky, I was still impressed on how it did. I'd only shot steel cased commie filth through it, but, hot dang - what a truck gun.

​

Vaquero can confirm the distance)

326 yds.
Plink
Plink
Plink.

 

[Vaquero]

Wait.
You were hitting the gong at 326. Right?

 

[Vaquero]

The silhouette was at 464.
I can't confirm or deny.
My ass was dragging by then.
It blurred after lunch on Saturday .

We did stuff.
Love ya Sterling.

 

[robertc1024]

OK - 326. Your ranges are wonky. Regardless, The 464 was with the Howa mini-action Grendel. Those were with an un-tested hand loads - I guess they're tested now. Nothing better than having a Magnetospeed and accurate ballistic coefficients. Damn - I love this stuff.

 

[oldag]

Update. At the West meet - I was consistently hitting a 3/4 silhoutte plate at ~364(?) yards with mine, factory Sellior & Bellot ammo. I have witnesses. 30+ inch drop - whatever. It was dropping out of the sky, I was still impressed on how it did. I'd only shot steel cased commie filth through it before, but, hot dang - what a truck gun.

​

Vaquero can confirm the distance)

Crap, I couldn't have seen the target at that range.

Nice shooting.

 

[deemus]

Update. At the West meet - I was consistently hitting a 3/4 silhoutte plate at ~364(?) yards with mine, factory Sellior & Bellot ammo. I have witnesses. 30+ inch drop - whatever. It was dropping out of the sky, I was still impressed on how it did. I'd only shot steel cased commie filth through it before, but, hot dang - what a truck gun.

​

Vaquero can confirm the distance)

Yep. Saw it happen a couple times. But yes, 326.