Green Hornet
Member
What’s the make of the machine gun the first commando is using? The one with the big drums.
Anti-Terrorist commandos (A Question ?)
- Thread starter Green Hornet
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Sig 552.
In order: Sig 552, M4A1 (or some variant; could be an M16... whatever; it's an Armalite), M60, AK-74, Uzi, big bore rifle; I'm not sure, M4 again (with major safety issues for the win), MP5K with stock, G36, P90, Remington 870(?)...
And a bunch of tarts who put a lot of lead over the berm.
In order: Sig 552, M4A1 (or some variant; could be an M16... whatever; it's an Armalite), M60, AK-74, Uzi, big bore rifle; I'm not sure, M4 again (with major safety issues for the win), MP5K with stock, G36, P90, Remington 870(?)...
And a bunch of tarts who put a lot of lead over the berm.
Green Hornet
Member
The Sig 552 . Can one buy one of those? I'm talking a semi-auto version with drum magazines.
Thanks for the run-down.
AFAIK, the closest you can come is a Sig 556 pistol. You might be able to do a 556 rifle on a form 4 into an SBR or put a stock on a 556 (with form 4). Not too familiar with the 556...
The Sig 556 takes AR mags (if my memory isn't gone), so a Beta mag would work just fine. http://betaco.com/products.asp?rid=1
Though it looks like they probably used a mag designed for the 550 series: http://betaco.com/products.asp?rid=17 which IIRC won't work in a 556.
+1. The exact opposite of sexy or appealing. The thought of hot lead punching holes through me strangely has the same effect as a cold shower... Go figure.
Bimbos? Not hot. Smart, competent women? Hot!!!
There were absolutely 0 imported Sig 552's in a civilian legal semi auto version imported, so unfortunately the answer on that is no. There also were not any imported in select fire that are legally transferable to civilians as they are all post '86 production. The closest you could get would be a Sig 556 pistol, and then SBR it and add a side folding stock or something.
^ So pretty much what I said, but in a different way.
Sometimes I like having the last word.....so yes, what you said.
lol j/kOk. In that case, the last word is yours.
Green Hornet
Member
It's not over yet. Bare with me. What is SBR? I did not see this in
Texas Gun Talk Abbreviations. Their was SUR, but no SBR.
Texas Gun Talk Abbreviations. Their was SUR, but no SBR.
Short-barreled rifle. Any rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" is referred to as a short-barreled rifle, and you must have a tax stamp to legally own it.
There are rifle-type handguns (like AR-15 pistols, AK pistols and Sig 556 pistols) that are built and sold as handguns from the go, and since they lack a stock are viewed as handguns under the law despite simply being shorter, stockless versions of rifles. Add a stock to one of these, and you have a short-barreled rifle (SBR) under the law.
Two things to note: There is a concept called "constructive possession" where for example if you have an AR-15 rifle receiver (even if it's an assembled rifle) and own an AR-15 SBR or pistol upper (they're the same, really) without a registered AR SBR or an AR pistol, you are considered to be in possession of an SBR. Also, it appears that as soon as you turn a handgun into a rifle through some kind of barrel and stock conversion (like putting a stock and longer-barreled upper on an AR pistol, or a "carbine kit" on a 1911 or Glock), you may never convert the firearm back to a handgun. Converting a rifle (or shotgun) to a handgun is illegal.
The minimum barrel length for a shotgun is 18". Anything shorter is considered short-barreled. Minimum for a rifle is 16". I think there's also an overall length requirement. I want to say 28"...? But can't remember. Anything under these numbers falls under SBR/SBS unless it's a handgun.
There's also a third area where a firearm isn't a rifle or shotgun, but merely a "long gun". Mossberg "cruisers" sold with a pistol grip and no butt stock attached fall under this category. Under Fed. law, a person must be 21 to buy anything other than a rifle or shotgun (meaning it has a stock) from a dealer. Odd thing is that NFA laws on short-barreled rifles (SBRs) and short-barreled shotguns (SBSs) still apply to these long guns.
That's the law as I understand it. Any other questions? I'm sure I've opened up more questions than I've answered...
There are rifle-type handguns (like AR-15 pistols, AK pistols and Sig 556 pistols) that are built and sold as handguns from the go, and since they lack a stock are viewed as handguns under the law despite simply being shorter, stockless versions of rifles. Add a stock to one of these, and you have a short-barreled rifle (SBR) under the law.
Two things to note: There is a concept called "constructive possession" where for example if you have an AR-15 rifle receiver (even if it's an assembled rifle) and own an AR-15 SBR or pistol upper (they're the same, really) without a registered AR SBR or an AR pistol, you are considered to be in possession of an SBR. Also, it appears that as soon as you turn a handgun into a rifle through some kind of barrel and stock conversion (like putting a stock and longer-barreled upper on an AR pistol, or a "carbine kit" on a 1911 or Glock), you may never convert the firearm back to a handgun. Converting a rifle (or shotgun) to a handgun is illegal.
The minimum barrel length for a shotgun is 18". Anything shorter is considered short-barreled. Minimum for a rifle is 16". I think there's also an overall length requirement. I want to say 28"...? But can't remember. Anything under these numbers falls under SBR/SBS unless it's a handgun.
There's also a third area where a firearm isn't a rifle or shotgun, but merely a "long gun". Mossberg "cruisers" sold with a pistol grip and no butt stock attached fall under this category. Under Fed. law, a person must be 21 to buy anything other than a rifle or shotgun (meaning it has a stock) from a dealer. Odd thing is that NFA laws on short-barreled rifles (SBRs) and short-barreled shotguns (SBSs) still apply to these long guns.
That's the law as I understand it. Any other questions? I'm sure I've opened up more questions than I've answered...
Green Hornet
Member
More or less. It took me a little while figuring it out.
That logic class I took “Logic. The art of thinking” came in handy after all these years.
About deductive and inductive reasoning.
With these regulations. Let me get straight to the point of what I’m looking for.
I just want to go to a dealer and buy a “sporting version” of a military style “rifle class”’ firearm. Semi-auto.
What is the most compact, overall length, I can buy, to choose from? With a 16, 18 inch barrel. In a 1k price range. Brands, Manufactures’? Choice in calibers is secondary.
Also a “sporting version” of the “military style’ firearms, most compact, that is in the “handgun class” Semi-auto. Choice in caliber is secondary.
I don’t want to do the tax stamp and/or have to go and get my local DPS, police chief to sign off on anything. Not that I have anything to hide. I don’t want to go through all that nonsense.
Thanks to those who replied and reply.
That logic class I took “Logic. The art of thinking” came in handy after all these years.
About deductive and inductive reasoning.
With these regulations. Let me get straight to the point of what I’m looking for.
I just want to go to a dealer and buy a “sporting version” of a military style “rifle class”’ firearm. Semi-auto.
What is the most compact, overall length, I can buy, to choose from? With a 16, 18 inch barrel. In a 1k price range. Brands, Manufactures’? Choice in calibers is secondary.
Also a “sporting version” of the “military style’ firearms, most compact, that is in the “handgun class” Semi-auto. Choice in caliber is secondary.
I don’t want to do the tax stamp and/or have to go and get my local DPS, police chief to sign off on anything. Not that I have anything to hide. I don’t want to go through all that nonsense.
Thanks to those who replied and reply.
I'd have to do more research on it, but the most compact rifle type I've seen that doesn't require NFA registration would be something along the lines of a MSAR STG-556, which is an AUG clone (with some improvements). I've seen them as low as $1700 at gun shows lately, so that's a bit above your intended price range. But for compactness, its bullpup layout cannot be beat in a shoulder-fired weapon.
YouTube - MSAR STG556 Second Video
PS-90 is also compact:
YouTube - Shooting FN PS90
As is the FS-2000 (same company as the PS-90; FN):
YouTube - FN FS2000 5.56 Bullpup rifle
Not too impressed with the forward ejection on the FS-2000; seems like a great way to create a jam.
Another option, I guess, would be a folding-stock AK (or other carbine with 16" barrel). Much cheaper, but it's not compact when the stock is extended. Very short when folded, though. I have one of these here at home (this isn't mine): Photo 56 of 57, M70B1 Fixed & B2 Folding Stock (AK47) There are a lot of folding carbines, including the M1A1 Carbine from WWII.
AKs make pretty compact pistols, too: AK pistol - Google Image Search
Does it show that I'm an AK fan yet?
Pretty much any "military-style" semi-auto rifle is available in a pistol version, and many are available with folding stocks.
YouTube - MSAR STG556 Second Video
PS-90 is also compact:
YouTube - Shooting FN PS90
As is the FS-2000 (same company as the PS-90; FN):
YouTube - FN FS2000 5.56 Bullpup rifle
Not too impressed with the forward ejection on the FS-2000; seems like a great way to create a jam.
Another option, I guess, would be a folding-stock AK (or other carbine with 16" barrel). Much cheaper, but it's not compact when the stock is extended. Very short when folded, though. I have one of these here at home (this isn't mine): Photo 56 of 57, M70B1 Fixed & B2 Folding Stock (AK47) There are a lot of folding carbines, including the M1A1 Carbine from WWII.
AKs make pretty compact pistols, too: AK pistol - Google Image Search
Does it show that I'm an AK fan yet?
Pretty much any "military-style" semi-auto rifle is available in a pistol version, and many are available with folding stocks.Green Hornet
Member
1.7k. is not going to float. 1k is the limit. If it was 100, 200 more, maybe. But 700, no.
I could for 1700. But than my kid who is graduating H.S. wants to get into shooting, So, I’m going have to buy or I should say. I want to buy him an inexpensive handgun to start him off. It’s his first time shooting, other than a bb gun. So, I’m going to buy him a hi-point or kel-tec, something along that 200 dollar line. New, since it’s going to be a present. Part of his present anyway. That’s if he takes to it, shooting that is.
Then, I’m going to have to buy another handgun for the other two guys for them to use between the both of them. That’s another 200 their. New or used for them.
Then….I have to go for my CHL. That’s 140 for the paper work Around 100 to 170 depending where I go, for the class. Then I’m going to get another handgun for myself. After that’s all over. I'll buy either new or used. Looking at another 300 their.
You see where I’m coming from. With that thousand dollar limit.
Otherwise, anything other than that limit. One of two things will happen. After I come home with the above items.
She’s [Wife] going to take that big-bore handgun that I bought not to long ago and both of us are going to find out what it’s like not only covert a two car garage into more living space as we did, but we will be converting it into an indoor shooting range as well.
Or she’s going to get first hand experience if a big bore can really stop a bear.
Maybe an AR or M-4 will do? Or an AK will do?
Thanks for your time and effort.
I could for 1700. But than my kid who is graduating H.S. wants to get into shooting, So, I’m going have to buy or I should say. I want to buy him an inexpensive handgun to start him off. It’s his first time shooting, other than a bb gun. So, I’m going to buy him a hi-point or kel-tec, something along that 200 dollar line. New, since it’s going to be a present. Part of his present anyway. That’s if he takes to it, shooting that is.
Then, I’m going to have to buy another handgun for the other two guys for them to use between the both of them. That’s another 200 their. New or used for them.
Then….I have to go for my CHL. That’s 140 for the paper work Around 100 to 170 depending where I go, for the class. Then I’m going to get another handgun for myself. After that’s all over. I'll buy either new or used. Looking at another 300 their.
You see where I’m coming from. With that thousand dollar limit.
Otherwise, anything other than that limit. One of two things will happen. After I come home with the above items.
She’s [Wife] going to take that big-bore handgun that I bought not to long ago and both of us are going to find out what it’s like not only covert a two car garage into more living space as we did, but we will be converting it into an indoor shooting range as well.
Or she’s going to get first hand experience if a big bore can really stop a bear.
Maybe an AR or M-4 will do? Or an AK will do?
Thanks for your time and effort.
AR or AK. M4's just an AR; you can go from 16" to 24" barrel, .22 LR to .50 Beowulf (heck, there are single-shot .50 BMG uppers and even a crossbow upper out now!) and anything in between without NFA paperwork. All by simply popping two pins.
Green Hornet
Member
WOOoo! I' m losing you here! You're going have to explain this to me. It's been some time since I was all into this. One other thing. No rim-fire AR's.
With an AR, the lower is the receiver that's the actual "firearm". It's also probably the cheapest assembly.
All you usually have to do to change calibers or barrel lengths is buy another upper (they start around $400), pop the two pins that hold the upper and lower together, install the new upper, reinsert the pins and go shooting. You can go from a .22 LR training upper to a .50 cal upper in literally seconds. Pistol calibers, rifle calibers; you name it, they probably make it. All you have to do is buy another upper (and probably magazines) instead of buying an entire new rifle, which is the beauty of the AR IMO.
All you usually have to do to change calibers or barrel lengths is buy another upper (they start around $400), pop the two pins that hold the upper and lower together, install the new upper, reinsert the pins and go shooting. You can go from a .22 LR training upper to a .50 cal upper in literally seconds. Pistol calibers, rifle calibers; you name it, they probably make it. All you have to do is buy another upper (and probably magazines) instead of buying an entire new rifle, which is the beauty of the AR IMO.
Green Hornet
Member
I’m back to square one.
I’m going to try to wrap this up with all the questions. I’ll try not to make a filibuster out of this. You’re talking to a guy [me], who, what seems to been in a coma for a period in his life, than he wakes up and the world around him has changed.
Unlike what one sees in a movie, on TV, where patients that do come out of comas. Don’t just spring-board out of bed and start doing two day decathlons. You have to relearn all over again. So, again, bear with me.
Going back and re-reading your posts.
Let’s say, I’m going to buy an M-16, or should say, AR-15. With a 20 inch barrel, let’s say.” Rifle class”. I can buy a different upper. 16, 18 inch barrel for it without having to do paper work on it and a tax stamp? As long as I don’t break that 16 inch rule?
Also, I can not change the shoulder stock to a pistol grip on it? Unless I do the paper work and a tax stamp for it?
Here comes the confusing part. For me that is.
Colt is the original maker. I have heard other manufactures’ make them as well.
Is the upper interchangeable, from one manufacturer to another?
The other thing. With the interchangeable uppers. Even if it’s from the same manufacturer as the lower. Are their problems with the fit, when you buy an upper for it?
I’m familiar with the M-16.It has the two pins, as you were saying. The back pin you would push to the side and it would break, actually pivot in half. The front pin would need a tool to undo it. As I remember, I think? Not to hard to field-strip it.
Also, what manufactures are there to buy from? How much does an AR go for?
Can I buy just the lower half, than decide what I want the upper half to be?
The idea of the M-16 being that versatile appeals to me.
I’m going to try to wrap this up with all the questions. I’ll try not to make a filibuster out of this. You’re talking to a guy [me], who, what seems to been in a coma for a period in his life, than he wakes up and the world around him has changed.
Unlike what one sees in a movie, on TV, where patients that do come out of comas. Don’t just spring-board out of bed and start doing two day decathlons. You have to relearn all over again. So, again, bear with me.
Going back and re-reading your posts.
Let’s say, I’m going to buy an M-16, or should say, AR-15. With a 20 inch barrel, let’s say.” Rifle class”. I can buy a different upper. 16, 18 inch barrel for it without having to do paper work on it and a tax stamp? As long as I don’t break that 16 inch rule?
Also, I can not change the shoulder stock to a pistol grip on it? Unless I do the paper work and a tax stamp for it?
Here comes the confusing part. For me that is.
Colt is the original maker. I have heard other manufactures’ make them as well.
Is the upper interchangeable, from one manufacturer to another?
The other thing. With the interchangeable uppers. Even if it’s from the same manufacturer as the lower. Are their problems with the fit, when you buy an upper for it?
I’m familiar with the M-16.It has the two pins, as you were saying. The back pin you would push to the side and it would break, actually pivot in half. The front pin would need a tool to undo it. As I remember, I think? Not to hard to field-strip it.
Also, what manufactures are there to buy from? How much does an AR go for?
Can I buy just the lower half, than decide what I want the upper half to be?
The idea of the M-16 being that versatile appeals to me.
Yep.
Actually, as long as you don't break the 16" barrel rule or minimum length rule (which I want to say is 26" or 28"), you can take the stock off it to your heart's content. AR's look kind of goofy without a stock, though, since you'll have the buffer tube poking out.
Usually they're interchangeable. I can't remember the specifics, but there are some uppers/lowers that aren't to the same specs as the rest of the market. Might be the M16A1 (and early AR15) uppers had bigger pins in 'em, but I can't remember exactly right now.. I'm an AK guy, not an AR guy.
Pretty sure some of the front pins on newer uppers are push-out, others might require a tool. Not too hard as you said, though.
Manufacturers to buy from? It would probably be easier to tell you which ones to avoid, since there are so many! My AR friends are not big fans of Model 1 Sales or Bushmaster. Double Star lowers are pretty popular because they're good quality and low priced. Very good value.
ARs go for who-the-hell-knows right now because of the election. I've seen 'em as low as $850 and as high as $2000 two weeks ago.. at the same show!
Yes, you can just buy the lower and decide on the upper later. I know a lot of folks who have gone this route; it's very popular to obtain an AR this way in California these days.
The versatility of the AR really appeals to me, too. Shame that I love AKs so much. ARs are really great firearms that can be just about anything you want when you want it.
About the only other advice I can think of is unless you want a precision or match-grade (high-power style) rifle, go with a chrome-lined barrel for ease of cleaning and longevity. Other than that, pick an AR out (whole rifle or components) and go to town!
