An Interesting Discussion Topic On Gun Rights.

Axxe55

Professional Troublemaker
Dec 15, 2019
8,063
113
Deep East Texas.
found this and thought it might be of interest to others here.

Give It to Them Straight
by John Ross


The biggest mistake we make is failing to take the moral high ground on our issue, and letting our
enemies define the terms.

THEY SAY: "We'd be better off if no one had guns."

WE SAY: "You can never succeed at that, criminals will always get guns." (FLAW: The implication here is that if you
COULD succeed, it would be a reasonable plan.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "So, you want to institute a system where the weak and elderly are at the mercy of the strong, the
lone are at the mercy of the gang. You want to give violent criminals a government guarantee that citizens are disarmed.
Sorry, that's unacceptable. Better that we should require every citizen to carry a gun."

***

THEY SAY: "Those assault rifles have no sporting purpose. You don't need a 30-round magazine for hunting deer --
they're only for killing people."

WE SAY: "I compete in DCM High Power with my AR-15. You need a large-capacity magazine for their course of fire.
My SKS is a fine deer rifle, and I've never done anything to give my government reason not to trust me, blah, blah, blah."
(FLAW: You have implicitly conceded that it is OK to ban any gun with no sporting use. And eventually they can replace
your sporting arms with arcade-game substitutes.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "Your claim that 'they're only for killing people is imprecise. A gas chamber or electric chair is
designed for killing people, and these devices obviously serve different functions than guns. To be precise, a high capacity
military-type rifle or handgun is designed for CONFLICT. When I need to protect myself and my freedom, I want the most
reliable, most durable, highest capacity weapon possible. The only thing hunting and target shooting have to do with
freedom is that they're good practice."

***

THEY SAY: "If we pass this CCW law, it will be like the Wild West, with shoot-outs all the time for fender-benders, in
bars, etc. We need to keep guns off the streets. If doing so saves just one life, it will be worth it."

WE SAY: "Studies have shown blah blah blah." (flaw: You have implied that if studies showed CCW laws equaled more
heat-of-passion shooting, CCW should be illegal.

WE SHOULD SAY: "Although no state has experienced what you are describing, that's not important. What is important
is our freedom. If saving lives is more important that anything else, why don't we throw out the Fifth amendment? We have
the technology to administer an annual truth serum session to the entire population. We'd catch the criminals and mistaken
arrest would be a thing of the past. How does that sound?"

***

THEY SAY: "I don't see what the big deal is about a five day waiting period."

WE SAY: "It doesn't do any good, criminals don't wait five days, it's a waste of resources blah blah blah." (FLAW: You
have implied that if waiting periods DID reduce crime, they would be a good idea.)

WHAT WE SHOULD SAY: "How about a 24-hour cooling-off period with a government review board before the news is
reported? Wouldn't that prevent lives from being ruined, e.g. Richard Jewell? And the fact that this law applies to people
who ALREADY own a handgun tells me that it's not about crime prevention, it's about harassment. Personally, I want to
live in a free society, not a 'safe' one with the government as chief nanny."

***

THEY SAY: "In 1776, citizens had muskets. No one ever envisioned these deadly AK-47s. I suppose you think we should
all have atomic bombs."

WE SAY: "Uh, well, uh . . ."

WE SHOULD SAY: "Actually, the Founders discussed this very issue - it's in the Federalist Papers. They wanted the
citizens to have the same guns as were the issue weapons of soldiers in a modern infantry. Soldiers in 1776 were each
issued muskets, but not the large field pieces with exploding shells. In 1996, soldiers are issued M16s, M249s, etc. but not
howitzers and atomic bombs. Furthermore, according to your logic, the laws governing freedom of the press are only valid
for newspapers whose presses are hand-operated and use fixed type. After all, no one in 1776 foresaw offset printing or
electricity, let alone TV and satellite transmission."

***

THEY SAY: "We require licenses on cars, but the powerful NRA screams bloody murder if anyone ever suggests licensing
these weapons of mass destruction."

WE SAY: Nothing, usually, and just sit there looking dumb.

WE SHOULD SAY:"You know, driving is a luxury, where firearms ownership is a right secured by the Constitution. But
let's put that aside for a moment. It's interesting you compared guns and vehicles. Here in the U.S. you can AT ANY AGE
go into any state and buy as many motorcycles, cars, or trucks of any size as you want, and you don't need to do anything if
you don't use them on public property. If you DO want to use them on public property, you can get a license at age 16. This
license is good in all 50 states. NO waiting periods, no background checks, nothing. If we treated guns like cars, a fourteenyear-
old could go into any state and legally buy handguns, machine guns, cannons, whatever, cash and carry, and shoot
them all with complete legality on private property. And at age 16 he could get a state license good anywhere in the country
to shoot these guns on public property."

***

Final comment, useful with most all arguments:

YOU SAY: "You know, I'm amazed at how little you care about your grandchildren. I would have thought they meant
more to you than anything."

THEY SAY:"Huh?"

YOU SAY: "Well, passing this proposal won't have a big immediate effect. I mean, in the next couple of years, neither Bill
Clinton nor Newt Gingrich is going to open up internment camps like Roosevelt did fifty-odd years ago. But think of your
worst nightmare of a political leader. Isn't it POSSIBLE that a person like that MIGHT be in control here some time in the
next 30, 40, or 50 years, with 51% of the Congress and 51% of the Senate behind him? If that does happen, do you
REALLY what your grandchildren to have been stripped of their final guarantee of freedom? And do you really want them
to have been stripped of it BY YOU?"
 

Wolfwood

Self Appointed Board Chauvinist
TGT Supporter
May 12, 2009
6,749
63
We don't negotiate with idiots.

That seems like a reasonable policy as well.
 

etmo

Active Member
Jan 25, 2020
492
93
Cedar Creek, Tx
Like Todd says, often the best practice is not to let the topic get started, but sometimes the person on the other side is open, honest and trying to do the right thing -- ask questions, get information, formulate their own opinion.

In that case, we all need to be the best ambassadors for the 2A that we can be, and framing the issues correctly is a big part of that.
 

Axxe55

Professional Troublemaker
Dec 15, 2019
8,063
113
Deep East Texas.
I don’t even let the discussion get started. By engaging in debate like that it explicitly implies you’re willing to listen to idiot Ideas and negotiation.
Like Todd says, often the best practice is not to let the topic get started, but sometimes the person on the other side is open, honest and trying to do the right thing -- ask questions, get information, formulate their own opinion.

In that case, we all need to be the best ambassadors for the 2A that we can be, and framing the issues correctly is a big part of that.
I have to agree with Todd as well on this. I found out the hard way too many times years ago, you just can't have a civil discussion with these people. It's just not possible from their side to see reason, logic or common sense when it comes to guns and gun rights. So I just don't challenge their misconceptions and misleading information. Just not worth the aggravation or energy anymore.

I make no secrets about I'm a gun owner and have guns. I don't advertise the fact, but it's not some secret either. Years ago, when I use to frequent Facebook a lot, I'd get some pretty nasty comments from people who I thought were friends when I posted things pertaining to guns and gun rights. I use to engage them on their opinions, but I figured it out. I wasn't changing any minds even when providing proof and evidence that supported my position. They just weren't listening, and didn't care.

If someone wants to approach me, whether in person, in social media, or by other means and get the truth about guns, and gun rights they can. I'm open to discussion with someone that want to have a civil discussion and wants to learn. I'm not that hard to find if they really want to have such a conversation.
 
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