A Little off Topic (El Paso)

[zoomydave]

This question is a little off topic but it is specifically directed at the El Paso community. I'm not always able to keep a weapon (firearm) in my vehicle but I wanted to consider keeping an extension baton and/or a mace gun within reach inside my vehicle. I've heard conflicting stories that extension batons are/are not allowed inside the vehicle and the same conflicting stories about have a mace gun inside your vehicle. It would be nice to have another option in those times I can't have my weapon but I want to follow the law of the land (El Paso County) and do it right, instead of guessing.
Thanks,
Dave

 

[BillRedding]

Dave,

30+ views and no responses yet, so I thought I'd respond if for no other reason to let you know you're not simply being ignored! ;-)

Wish I could help but I never carry any such contact-weapons in my car. The only contact-weapon I have in my car is a knife, and that is my EDC knife in my jeans' pocket, as it's always ON me when I go out -- as it my EDC handgun.

As for Mace, I'd not even consider it: Apparently, it doesn't work on animals such as dogs, and some people aren't even slowed-down by Mace. Pepper spray (oleoresin capsicum? bear-spray) is better than Mace as it DOES work on animals and better for use on people. Again though, too often sprays of any kind don't stop psycho-assailants. Even Tasers and hand-held Stun Guns sometimes don't work on some people. You can't predict for sure, and you MUST be sure something will work.

As for a baton, unless you are well-trained using it I doubt that'd be any more effective than a stick the same length.

But maybe someone else here can cite some law?

I can't because I don't even own such weapons so I've never needed to know/look-up the law on them. Don't even have any such weapons @ home (just guns, swords and knives), let alone in my car.

-- BR

 

[zoomydave]

Thank you

 

[majormadmax]

Keeping it in your vehicle is one thing, using it would be another. The Texas Penal Code §46.01 defines a "club" as "an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious
bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following: (A) blackjack;(B) nightstick;(C) mace;(D) tomahawk."

§46.02 goes on to say "(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club."

Of course, §46.15(b)(6) states that §46.02 does not apply if "the individual is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying"

But you said this was in lieu of a handgun, so much of the above is just for informational purposes only!

So to answer your question, if you did have an extended baton in your vehicle (but not on or about your person) it is unlikely you would use in inside said vehicle hence you'd be in violation of §46.02. Simply having it in your vehicle should not be a problem, but I don't see how you could use it without getting in trouble.

That said, I would recommend instead either getting a quality pepper spray device or finding another instrument that is not an illegal weapon but that could be used for self defense if the need arises (such as a large MagLite).

Hope that helps!

Cheers! M2

 

[thequintessentialman]

The more I read §46.xx the more confused I get.

If a flashlight used for illuminating the dark is now used to "strike" another person, has it now been adapted as a striking instrument?

Since the law changed to LTC, wonder how/if that affects things; do you have to conceal in order to have a can of mace or a restricted knife? If it's pepper spray and not mace is that a loop hole? If you are CC then the Bowie knife can be carried (OC/CC?) but if OC NOT? Seems like Texas could have made this easier. If a person passes the background check and can OC a hand canon (and with no restrictions at all on OC a long gun), then who cares if said person has a pocket knife or a mace... not to mention the fact these are all arms that shall not be infringed.

 

[majormadmax]

What about a tire iron? A rock? A large dead fish?

Just because an item is used as a weapon doesn't mean it's a weapon to begin with.

The Texas Penal Code §46.01 describes what the state considers to be weapons, meaning their primary use is as a weapon.

And §46.15(b)(6) has always listed provisions by which §46.02 does not apply.

As for knives, the Texas Knife Law Reform Bill (HB 1935) passed unanimously last month which will repeal “illegal knives” in Texas statute. It is expected Governor Abbott will sign it. That will clear up a lot of the muddled language in that statute.

 

[Ozzman]

Just saw this post.

The question is, why can't you carry a firearm in your car? The Castle Doctrine of 2007 protects our right to do this as long as it remains concealed and out of public view. As far as a club, or a knife greater than 5", according to TX law you cannot "CARRY" these on your person while in public, but you can have one or both stored away in your car. Your car is an extension of your home, office, and dwelling.

My wife is a teacher, and keeps a baton under her seat for "just in case".

 

[zoomydave]

Because I work at a Military Installation and then go into yet another layer of security to enter my place of work. Weapons are just not allowed.

 

[Nightwatch]

Had you wrong-thought you were a teacher by another thread you posted on. Your rights are at the mercy of a base commander-SecDef should issue a blanket policy covering all military property that LTC are honored. Of all people, our military family/employees are targets, and should be able to defend themselves. We need a Teddy Roosevelt-type in that position for a while.

 

[majormadmax]

Because I work at a Military Installation and then go into yet another layer of security to enter my place of work. Weapons are just not allowed.

Also, Texas law does not extend onto Federal property. Some believe 18 U.S. Code § 930 prevents personally-owned firearms on military installations, but much like the state laws that only applies to “facilities” similarly defined as "a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties."

However, base commanders can prohibit or restrict it. Dyess AFB outside of Abilene allows it, as long as the firearms remain in vehicles; but where I work we aren't afforded that right. Given that we had an on-base shooting last year, you'd think the "leadership" (deliberately put in quotes) here would clue in, but that's not the case...

 

[easy rider]

Bases can often be as political as D.C.

 

[BillRedding]

@ Ozzman: Your wife should re-think that baton...unless one is an "expert" (martial-arts weapons training for a good while) then she MIGHT get in one hit on an assailant who bum rushes her but if that one hit wasn't seriously disabling, it'd be over for her. Contact weapons are a 2nd/3rd resort since to USE them the attacker has to be CLOSE.

She needs to carry a firearm, period.

We ALL do...and "other things" if you want on top of that (an EDC knife in my case), but first & foremost, a GUN.

-- BR

 

[BillRedding]

@ easy rider: ...and even the military has become more liberal (& "progressive") in the last few decades, especially the top brass.

Truly a shadow of its former self...

-- BR

 

[Ozzman]

@ Ozzman: Your wife should re-think that baton...unless one is an "expert" (martial-arts weapons training for a good while) then she MIGHT get in one hit on an assailant who bum rushes her but if that one hit wasn't seriously disabling, it'd be over for her. Contact weapons are a 2nd/3rd resort since to USE them the attacker has to be CLOSE.

She needs to carry a firearm, period.

We ALL do...and "other things" if you want on top of that (an EDC knife in my case), but first & foremost, a GUN.

-- BR

I agree.

However....

She cannot carry a gun on her while at school, and the NGA policy extends to vehicles in the parking lot at the school she works at. SHE made the choice... not me. The way she sees it; it's better than nothing at all.

 

[Nightwatch]

That's fixin' to change 1 Sep...as of 1 Sep the schools can't keep an LTC holder from keeping their gun locked in their car. I just wish they'd made it cover everyone-like the employee parking lot law a coupla years ago that exempted school districts.

 

[BillRedding]

ozzman,

IMO, it's hardly "better than nothing" -- if you don't know how to USE it.

But if she insists, then YOU should insist she sign-up for weapons training (at some martial arts school, one well-rated/authentic of course), specifically tell the instructor you need baton training. Unlike YEARS that are usually required to master weapons, ALL she needs to learn is maybe a half-dozen or so techniques (keeping it SIMPLE, like Krav Maga's philosophy), practice them so she can DO them anytime/every time -- and THEN the baton makes good sense (even though again, the attacker has to be close for its use).

And being a woman, a male attacker (as the POS gender almost always is) wouldn't be expecting much from a woman, so imagine his surprise when he goes down! Well, hopefully...that is, that's the PLAN! ;-)

Otherwise, she's relying on luck just carrying it (as people who carry other contact weapons but can't use them properly), and who really want to do THAT? And seeing a weapon in hand is NOT going to dissuade most thugs...that's their normal environment so they're not impressed.

Besides, husbands don't let wives (or vice-versa) do things that are more a false sense of protection than not...even if it's their choice. You certainly don't want to say "I told you so" later (that is, IF she survives the incident).

Good luck to her,

-- BR

 

[Nightwatch]

The baton is a UCW unless she's on her own property, in/on the way directly to/from her car and property, or on premises she controls. Just training doesn't get her around the law forbidding it. The limited range of movement inside the vehicle would not be effective, and one step outside the vehicle and she's in violation if not as described above.

It's not worth a class A misdemeanor, let alone whatever the base might charge her with were she on base, if she breaks their rules by having it in the car. Matter of fact, I'd check with any military base LEOS before bringing OC or an electronic weapon on base, too. Some are stricter than others.

Lotta rigmarole to go through to protect ourselves when the attacker breaks all the rules.
Inside the car, of all the non-lethal options, I'd recommend a 6" screwdriver. She or you can thrust or jab it into the face or the arm that reached in-and they'll let go. No hassle about weapons, but it'd work better than swinging a flashlight in a cramped space. It's not even illegal to carry a screwdriver in her purse in Texas.

A fixed blade knife of legal length would be more effective in the car than a baton. Again, I'd check with the military installation onto which you/she would carry it.

 

[BillRedding]

"Lotta rigmarole to go through to protect ourselves when the attacker breaks all the rules." -- Nightwatch

...I agree completely!

As for a knife for "military people," my neighbor and his wife are in the Army (medics, IIRC) -- she has been deployed to Kuwait, but he has told me the same thing: Active Duty can't have guns and other weapons in their car or even @ home due to military policies. And if the MPs ever visited their apt and find some "contraband" weapon (meaning, it's not been registered & locked up on base), they're in trouble.

[It's absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that our military can't even have firearms @ home!]

But he DID say that a knife 2.5" long could get around all that and be carried (even though here n TX a longer blade is legal) as that's PLENTY of blade really! So I suggested to him he get an EDC knife that's instantly-deployable with one hand -- like mine, which has a 2.5" blade exactly: The DART knife by Dan Marcaido (Made in Italy -- not Chinese crap -- of N690Co steel by Fox Knives).

I also agree: A knife working on an arm reaching in to grab you would be highly "discouraging" I would guess, and for that use a shorter blade would work better than a longer one in confined spaces. Even could be deadly if you make the cuts in the right places.

-- BR

 

[Nightwatch]

I found the CRKT Bear Claw a few years back. Both my sons went to Iraq together in the Army-stayed in the same hooch for the whole deployment-I bought each of them one-army didn't even train them in knives. Older one went back to Kuwait for another tour and took it. They wore them...better'n nothing...a good get-off-right-now tool, and, as you said, if you know how-deadly. My new DIL works in a bank-gave her one...gotta order some more...that'd be a good one for a lady to carry anywhere...not half bad for us big tough guys, either.

 

[BillRedding]

"better'n nothing" -- Nightwatch

IMO, an edged weapon up close (grappling-distance) is better than a gun, so it's certainly "better'n nothing." ;-)

It's just at my age, I prefer to use bullets: Less work, less sweat and less mess (sometimes).

-- BR