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51% sign question

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  • V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
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    Sep 30, 2012
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    TABC regulations prevent it.


    Yes.......but it is not enforced.......to my knowledge......but my knowledge is rather limited....I qualify a retired TABC officer yearly and we have discussed it. That's all I have to go by...

    It would seem contrary for TABC to actually ask a business to prove they need a sign to me....
     

    majormadmax

    Úlfhéðnar
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    Aug 27, 2009
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    This wasn't Floore Country Store in Helotes, was it? A few years back, they were a full menu restaurant during the day, and a country music venue at night. We're regularly go there to eat lunch, then one day my son noticed a red 51% sign. Yep, even during they day when very little alcohol was being served, it was still illegal to carry there.

    Plus, TABC has a way online to check the status of a license in Texas:


    Also note, per TABC, blue signs are no longer required under state law!

    Bottom line, if it is obvious an establishment is more geared toward selling alcohol than serving food, I doubt a judge is going to cut anyone a break claiming they didn't "see" a red 51% sign!
     

    oohrah

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    Jul 24, 2013
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    It is enforced if you report the incorrect signage. I have done this when a place actually had both Red and Blue posted, and their license was Blue. TABC did go to the place and correct the posting.

    Now, what happens with a new establishment that has no track record of receipts, the TABC will take the estimate (read guess) of the owner to make an initial determination. If it is wrong, it can't change until the next renewal. So, you may think the 51% sign might be wrong because of the activity, but the only way to know for sure it to check the TABC website.

    And as others have said, but to clarify - as an LTC holder, you are responsible for knowing the law, regardless of signage.
     

    bigtex10mm

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    The local dance hall, run by the Knights of Columbus, had one on both sides of the bar wall, so you would have had to be legally blind not to see it. That being said, when my wife and I attended dances there, I was able to pick out quite a few men that were concealed carrying.....just not very good at it. I was really surprised that the local Constable, that always worked security at the dances, not enforcing the law.
    The hall recently sold to a private firm that changed it to a fancy venue. I was in there recently and the 51% signs have been removed.
     

    Texas Denali HD

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    Several years ago the Texas de Brazil in Addison had a 51% sign at the bar area but not at the main entrance. I reported it to TABC and it was gone upon my next visit.
     

    rotor

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    Life was so much easier when TABC had an app to easily check and what did they do, they took the app off. The website for me is hard to use to check. Maybe they made it like that on purpose.
     

    HKSig

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    I've seen a 51% sign posted 6 or 7 feet about the floor, to the right of a door. On the inside. Double doors, and two sets of doors with a foyer in between. No way you'd see it on the way in (unless you turned around and looked up (presuming you aren't @Sasquatch), and most people wouldn't see it on the way out. I did see it on the way out.
     

    leVieux

    TSRA/NRA Life Member
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    Unless it has changed not being aware of a law is not a defense.

    But that's NOT the question or the issue under discussion !

    This is more like "does a person carrying have an affirmative duty before entering if no sign is visible". I doubt that a court would claim that, as the law doesn't state that it is a requirement.

    leVieux
    .
     

    Coyote9

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    Unless it has changed not being aware of a law is not a defense.
    AND RIGHT THERE IS EVERYONE's ANSWER! This whole carry thing is about choices, make wise ones. Why challenge rules and laws that are absolutely clearly stated? The law clearly says that if the owner informs you verbally or by ANY sign that weapons are not allowed, then you MUST leave immediately! The only issue with "proper signage" is whether or not you can be prosecuted!
     

    Coyote9

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    It's easy to comply. If one walks in a place that is posted but doesn't immediately see a sign, when the sign is seen either leave for good or take you're firearm out and lock it somewhere in your vehicle. I don't understand why we have six pages of discussion. Surely it's not that complicated.
    Absolutely correct
     

    GeorgeS

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    Jul 7, 2018
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    That wasn't the issue I was raising.
    It had to do with the sign being located (indoors) where it was not visible to patrons in an outside area of the establishment (accessible from the sidewalk), thus exposing concealed carriers to possible arrest.
    I would not have patronized the place had I seen any signage forbidding carry, and I would not have made an issue of it if I had been asked to leave.
    Fortunately, they didn't see my gun and nothing bad happened.
     
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