Hurley's Gold

51% sign question

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  • GeorgeS

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 7, 2018
    964
    76
    San Antonio
    As I stated in OP, it was a brand new place. When the server brought us our beers, I inquired about menus. She stated that they didn't serve food.
    We drank our beers and left.
     

    Haystack

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 2, 2021
    417
    76
    Edom, TX
    Nothing prevents a business that sells alcohol from putting up a 51% sign whether they actually receive 51% of their income from alcohol or not.......

    It's an easy way to prevent carry without posting 36.05, 30.06 or 30.07 signs and the complaints that go along with them............
    I actually got the TABC to force a restaurant to take down a 51% sign. If their license shows they should have the blue sign, they cannot post the 51% per the TABC.
     

    jordanmills

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 29, 2009
    5,371
    96
    Pearland, TX
    I think some of the information has changed and some of what's posted is out of date.

    Penal Code 46.03(a): https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.03
    (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
    [...]
    (7) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

    Penal Code 46.15(m): https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.15 (note there are two subsections m, this is the first one)
    (m) It is a defense to prosecution under Section 46.03 that the actor:

    (1) carries a handgun on a premises or other property on which the carrying of a weapon is prohibited under that section;

    (2) personally received from the owner of the property, or from another person with apparent authority to act for the owner, notice that carrying a firearm or other weapon on the premises or other property, as applicable, was prohibited; and

    (3) promptly departed from the premises or other property.
    Penal Code 46.15(p): https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.15
    (p) Sections 46.03(a)(7), (11), and (13) do not apply if the actor:

    (1) carries a handgun on the premises or other property, as applicable;

    (2) holds a license to carry a handgun issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code; and

    (3) was not given effective notice under Section 30.06 or 30.07 of this code or Section 411.204, Government Code, as applicable.

    Government Code 411.204: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm#411.204
    Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
    [...]
    (c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

    If you're not familiar with these sections (and I suspect most of us here are), the first says it's illegal to carry in a "bar", the second provides a defense to the first if you were given notice and promptly left, the third provides a defense to the first if you have an LTC and were not given notice, and the fourth describes the requirements for notice referred to in the third.

    My reading of this (keep in mind that I'm only an armchair lawyer, and I am not your armchair lawyer) is that anyone, with or without an LTC has a defense to 46.03 if they carry a firearm in a "bar", were asked to leave by someone who seems to be in charge, and promptly leaves. This was added in 2021, so it's new and most people may not be familiar with it.

    Also, for someone with an LTC, regardless of being asked to leave or not, they are not in violation of 46.03(a)(7) if the place does not have signs that meet the notification requirements. Given the limitations of 30.05, it looks like they can't even be penalized even if they are asked to leave because they're carrying in a bar.

    The signage requirements are fairly straightforward. I have yet to see a bar or hospital that has posted signage to meet the requirement (though I don't go to many bars lately). It must be in english and in spanish, be printed in contrasting block letters at least one inch high, have "51" printed in red at least five inches high, must be posted at each entrance, and must be conspicuously visible to the public. The last two seem to be offensive to most bars - very few have the signs posted at each entrance (and many just hide it behind bottles at the bar), and of those few many of the remaining are not conspicuously visible. Basically if it's not obvious to you as you walk in without having to look for it, then it does not meet posting requirements. Thus an LTC holder can legally carry there. Someone carrying without an LTC only gets a mulligan if they're asked to leave and they leave, but if a cop busts them before they are asked to leave then they are screwed.
     
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

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