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  • oldag

    TGT Addict
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    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
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    The ATF was attacking his home when he could have been arrested in town without a long standoff that resulted in the deaths of innocent people. Unless you believe the children were criminals.
    Umm, think I already said that he could have (should have) been arrested in town without incident. Try reading my prior posts.

    In spite of everything, Howell still could have prevented the tragedy by walking out and surrendering. I hold him responsible for failing to do so, just as I hold the ATF accountable for performing the raid as a PR stunt.
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    deemus

    my mama says I'm special
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    30   0   0
    Feb 1, 2010
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    DFW
    Were the ATF wrong about the weapons Koresh had?

    Obviously not.

    They phucked up the whole arrest no doubt, but the doomsday cult members being doomsday cult members acted predictably when the ATF came knocking and would have done the same regardless of weather Koresh was arrested off site first.

    Without Koresh there the chances of the extended siege are probably much lower and a better outcome much higher. More people would probably have come out on their own.

    All parties are equally responsible for the initial wild west shit show. No one had to die, they wernt going anywhere. Once surrounded there was no danger to anyone. They should have arrested Koresh off site then settled in to wait them out. The Arrest/assault plan was doomed to failure from inception.

    yes. They were wrong about the weapons charges they served the warrant for.

    no live grenades. No automatic weapons.

    after the siege they gathered everything up and none of it was illegal. That report has been out for a couple decades.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    9   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    6,767
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    Austin, Texas
    yes. They were wrong about the weapons charges they served the warrant for.

    no live grenades. No automatic weapons.

    after the siege they gathered everything up and none of it was illegal. That report has been out for a couple decades.
    They certainly had converted full-auto weapons.

    Several members had a number of run ins with the feds for sbr and full-auto sales and possession before the siege.

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    deemus

    my mama says I'm special
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    I’m pretty sure I read a report that said no full autos were found around the time they were found not guilty. It was the reason they were found not guilty of weapons charges.
     
    Last edited:

    cycleguy2300

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    9   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
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    We are going to trust The NY Times now?
    Waco tribune and Dallas morning news say the same thing in an article that is hardly taking a stand against the branch davidians...

    To sum up, koresh's lawyer said they had full auto stuff, and 48 full auto ARs were recovered after the fire.

    I want to point out they should have had the right to have as many as they wanted, but there is the NFA and all...

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    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,022
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Waco tribune and Dallas morning news say the same thing in an article that is hardly taking a stand against the branch davidians...

    To sum up, koresh's lawyer said they had full auto stuff, and 48 full auto ARs were recovered after the fire.

    I want to point out they should have had the right to have as many as they wanted, but there is the NFA and all...

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    I had read conflicting accounts of whether they had fully auto weapons of not. Some sources said they didn't, and some said they did.

    Not for sure what is accurate or not on that.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    9   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
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    I had read conflicting accounts of whether they had fully auto weapons of not. Some sources said they didn't, and some said they did.

    Not for sure what is accurate or not on that.
    Ditto, but several DID have convictions for NFA violations so it seems highly plausible and reasonable they actually did vs the FBI just saying they did

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    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Ditto, but several DID have convictions for NFA violations so it seems highly plausible and reasonable they actually did vs the FBI just saying they did

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    I did read that, so in retrospect, there would have had to be some amount of illegal weapons for them to either get a conviction, or a plea bargain.
     

    Sam7sf

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    10   0   0
    Apr 13, 2018
    12,466
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    The batf doesn’t serve a purpose. The gca doesn’t serve a purpose. Gun control is not only about control but revenue. It’s not about saving lives; never was.

    Local cops...now they are the real heroes and those departments should get way more money than what they often do.

    Ice is another agency that should get more funding. I could keep going on and on. Our priorities as a nation are terrible.
     

    justmax

    Well-Known
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    4   0   0
    Jul 28, 2019
    1,123
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    Kingwood
    In what I quoted, it appeared you said zero about it being opinion. That you stated it as fact was rather obvious, at least to me but I have been wrong before. Anyway, here it is again:
    Sorry, was out of town a few days, and TGT and answering was not a high priority.

    Yes, it was my opinion, formed by hearing the stories from many federal agents (I am not one) that I have worked with over my working career of 4 decades. Some I believed, some I did not. After objectively applying deductive reasoning, I feel pretty safe in believing what I stated is fact. I have also previously heard stories from some that were obviously subjective stories or viewpoints. One would have to use inductive reasoning to believe those. Most of those, I did not include in my reasoning.

    However, if it makes you feel better I will retroactively add a "IMHO". Feel free to insert this wherever you like.
     
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