.223 bullet seating questions.

[Cozmolyne]

So, I'm a new reloader and I have 2 questions:

1) In my reloading book, it says that the overall length should be 2.260 at the max for .223 (I assume these are SAAMI specs), so, what's the MINIMUM? I ask because I have some Hornady rounds that measure around 2.150 and it seems to be because the tips of the bullets are just flatter. Should I just push the bullet down until the case neck reaches that line that's in the middle of the bullet or just keep it between whatever the minimum is and 2.260?

2) Some of my casings are resized way to much because, out of 50 bullets, 3-5 of them will either wiggle up and down slightly or will just completely fall in (which is tedious because now I have to pull the bullets, change out my bullet seating die for the crimper, narrow the case neck with the crimper, then try to reseat the bullet and that sometimes doesn't work either). I'm screwing in the resizing die exactly as the Lee instructions say but sometimes I really push down hard on the press when using the resizing die on a spent casing. What am I doing wrong?

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Really minimum is determined more by the length of the bullet than anything. Max length is just a general guideline of what can universally fit into a stanag type magazine. Minimum length is more to avoid overpressure situations with a max load than anything. If you can try and find a book that has minimum seating depth recommendations for each bullet type listed. Personally I just go with the 2.260 so far with my reloads although I'm still new to .223 so I might adjust that later if I can increase my accuracy doing so (which can sometimes be the case).

Curious what kind of bullet are you using? Also have you measured "that line in the middle of the bullet" for consistency between rounds? That is what is called a cannalure and when present, as long as it is consistent, most people will seat to the middle of that line and do a light taper crimp into it to help prevent setback

As to question number two that is definitely a big issue and you should probably pull all the rounds you have loaded so far, or at least do a bench push test (pushing the bullet into your bench with about 40lbs of force). Chance are good if you had some fall straight out then the others are probably do not have enough neck tension to prevent setback which can lead to kabooms, especially in rifles. Crimping usually only supplies about 10% of your neck tension while proper sizing provides the rest. What full length sizing die are you using?

It sounds the like the seater stem was milled over spec and thus causing your necks to not be .001-.002 under the diameter of your bullets (about the right sizing needed to ensure proper neck tension). If its easy enough take the decapping mandrel out of your sizing die and measure its widest spot, it should come out to .222 or .223 to properly grip the .224 bullets. If you have a mandrel like the lee sizing die does you can always chuck it in a drill and use oiled 1000 grit wet paper to reduce the width down to that sweet spot (remember go slow and measure often). This also has the benefit of polishing up the mandrel if it's got tooling marks like my lee ones do allowing an easier downstroke when sizing.

Edit: Whoops didn't read the last bit, you do have a Lee die

 

[Dawico]

As Rush stated, check your seating stem. I have found that my Lee dies usually run about .03 to even .05 under bullet size. That may be a little much if you are using flat base bullets though.

 

[Deavis]

#1) OAL is determined by the bullet or your preference based on past experience/learning. If the bullet has a cannelure, put the mouth in the middle and crimp. If it doesn't, put it at 2.250" or your use the OAL that the loading should have by leaning on your reference manual that you got the load from.

--I see you are using a manual, which one? Does it not have an OAL for the specific bullet, like a Lyman?

#2) The seating stem does not size the neck of the cartridge, it seats the bullet and never touches the brass. The neck sizer, either mounted on the decapping stem or a seperate die is what sizes the neck.

Go about this in a systematic way.

A) Remove the decapping stem from your sizing die, on Lee dies IIRC the neck sizer is on the stem
B) Size a casing
C) Make sure it passes your case gage (you are using a case gage or chamber to check sizing, right?)

Now, take a look at that cartridge

A) What does the case mouth measure? Using your calipers it should be between 0.244-0.249 or so depending on the brand of brass
B) A bullet should be very, very difficult if not impossible to get into the mouth with your hands because the neck is undersize, flat base are obvious, boat-tails do not fit in up to the major diameter

You can rule out sizing die issues like that, and then just measure your neck sizer and what is it's diameter? It should definitely be under .224, what does yours meausre?

 

[reddog]

^^^ for #1

#2 You shouldn't have to be pushing that hard, you need to use more lube on the case when sizing, what lube are you using now?

 

[robocop10mm]

So, I'm a new reloader and I have 2 questions:

1) In my reloading book, it says that the overall length should be 2.260 at the max for .223 (I assume these are SAAMI specs), so, what's the MINIMUM? I ask because I have some Hornady rounds that measure around 2.150 and it seems to be because the tips of the bullets are just flatter. Should I just push the bullet down until the case neck reaches that line that's in the middle of the bullet or just keep it between whatever the minimum is and 2.260?

OK, have you read a manual? Your use of terms (or mis-use) indicates an overall lack of experience. The line in the middle of the bullet is called the cannelure. Normally the case mouth is crimped into the cannelure.

2) Some of my casings are resized way to much because, out of 50 bullets, 3-5 of them will either wiggle up and down slightly or will just completely fall in (which is tedious because now I have to pull the bullets, change out my bullet seating die for the crimper, narrow the case neck with the crimper, then try to reseat the bullet and that sometimes doesn't work either). I'm screwing in the resizing die exactly as the Lee instructions say but sometimes I really push down hard on the press when using the resizing die on a spent casing. What am I doing wrong?

This is not a sizing problem, but a need for annealing.

 

[ROGER4314]

The .223 is a mean little round to reload. It probably causes more problems than anything else that I reload.

The bullet seating die is a bit baffling to adjust. There are TWO functions in this die: One seats the bullet and the other sets the crimp.

I do NOT crimp. I use what I call a "zero bell" crimp. It is not crimped inward OR outward (belled). I crimp only enough to remove any "Bell" shape in the case. I've used that style of crimp even in heavy recoiling rounds like .44 and .357 magnum. Done correctly, that's all I need!

I get a bullet ready to be seated and carefully, by trial and error, get my desired overall length. I reloaded .223 yesterday and my OAL was 2.260". If I go too far into the case (OAL too short), I use my "eraser" to pull the bullet back out and try again.

Then, I raise the seating plug as far as it will go so it won't touch the bullet tip. Next, I lower the seating die body until I detect a slight resistance and experiment until I get the desired amount of "crimp", or in my case "Zero Bell". The bullet should be firmly held in the case neck at this point. If too much force is applied, it will collapse the case at the shoulder and create a bulge there. Once set, I raise the die a TINY bit and lock the locking collar so it won't move. The locking collar must be secured so the die can still be removed from the press and that preserves your adjustment.

If you set this die incorrectly, the crimp will be applied too early and the bullet will be seated anyway causing scraping of the projectile. Done right, the bullet will arrive at its location and the crimp will be applied.

Next, I lower the bullet seating plug so it just contacts the bullet tip. I check a couple rounds for my desired OAL then run them.

If you load .223 long enough, you'll pull a rim off of a case, leaving the case stuck in the sizing die. RCBS has a cool stuck case remover:

(http://www.midwayusa.com/product/504741/rcbs-stuck-case-remover?cm_vc=ProductFinding)

The kit includes a drill, tap, bolt and a sleeve that makes it super easy to remove the case! Put one together yourself if you wish but I bought the kit (about $18), keep it in a Band aid can and it makes short work of a stuck case.

I use carbide dies and STILL use case lube when I resize even though folks say it's not necessary. Lube makes the process SO much easier on my elbows and it's worth it!



Flash

 

[shortround]

Your cartridge overall length depends on the bullet.

If you use a manual that does not specifically include the bullet you are using, then you have to experiment.

"Should I just push the bullet down until the case neck reaches that line that's in the middle of the bullet or just keep it between ..."

That sounds like your bullets have a cannelure. For best results, the mouth of the cartridge should be crimped into the cannelure.

Since you did not specify exactly which bullet you are having trouble with, this post might be totally worthless for your situtation.

 

[robocop10mm]

Let me expound;

#1 The "line" on the bullet is the cannelure. I prefer to seat to the cannelure and use a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Since I load .223 for AR's I prefer to have a crimp for reliable feeding. If you are loading for a bolt action, you can seat the bullet out to max oal (if they will chamber at that length).

#2 Brass "work hardens". Repeated firing/resizing will harden the necks to the point they do not have the elasticity they require. When you resize, the brass gets squashed down and springs back a bit. The expander button gets drawn through the neck and once again the brass springs back a bit. If the bullets are falling in, the brass is work hardened in that area and will not spring back like it should. You have two choices, scrap that brass or aneal it. Anealing is easy and really extends the life of the brass. I aneal all rifle brass (necks) everytime (except .223 as it is plentiful).

 

[Cozmolyne]

Hey guys, sorry about my late reply.

So I've taken the decapper out of my Lee Resizing Die. It seems to tapper out a bit. I measured it with my calipers and the widest point is about .223-.224 so it seems like it is oversized. What if I just raise the decapper up a little bit, so it doesn't go all the way to the widest point.

And for everyone that's asking, I'm using boat tail bullets.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Hey guys, sorry about my late reply.

So I've taken the decapper out of my Lee Resizing Die. It seems to tapper out a bit. I measured it with my calipers and the widest point is about .223-.224 so it seems like it is oversized. What if I just raise the decapper up a little bit, so it doesn't go all the way to the widest point.

And for everyone that's asking, I'm using boat tail bullets.

That won't work....in fact if you raise it too far you can get a stuck case. Keep in mind it is widening the case mouth on the down stroke after sizing it down in the top of the stroke. Just chuck it into a drill and polish it with some 1k grit until it's about .222. Go slow and measure often.

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[silverbullet]

What size bullet are you using? .223 or ..224??

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

What size bullet are you using? .223 or ..224??

They make .223 bullets? Thought they were all .224?

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[Dawico]

Hey guys, sorry about my late reply.

So I've taken the decapper out of my Lee Resizing Die. It seems to tapper out a bit. I measured it with my calipers and the widest point is about .223-.224 so it seems like it is oversized. What if I just raise the decapper up a little bit, so it doesn't go all the way to the widest point.

And for everyone that's asking, I'm using boat tail bullets.

That won't work. The expanding ball has to go through the neck and get pulled back out. This sizes the neck. If you raise it a little it may not decap your cases. If you raise it more then you may not be able to size the brass all the way ( case neck pinched between expanding ball and neck portion of the die).

The fix it to chuck your expander ball stem (removed from die) in a drill and turn it while holding fine grit sandpaper on the ball. The ball should measure about .221 or so. Sand it down in small steps and measure often.

Essentially your expander ball is too big and opening the necks of your cases too much.

 

[Cozmolyne]

OK guys, so I sanded it down to .220 but now I have another problem...

...I don't know how far down I need to put the decapper. Lol.

Also, another question, I already have 100 or so brass I ran through the die before I noticed the problem of the oversized decapper, so I can assume that many of them are sized too large; if I run them through the decapper now, should that correctly resize brass that is potentially too large?

 

[Younggun]

Set it just low enough to punch the primer out.


Running the brass again should properly size it.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

I start with the decapping pin just barely sticking out the bottom of the die, then run the case into the sizing die. If the primer doesn't drop slowly lower the pin a little at a time while running the same case through it until the primer drops, and once it does your done. If you go too far you risk snapping the pin.

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