03 FFL (C&R) Renewal

[majormadmax]

My 03 FFL (C&R) expires on 1 Jan 2013, I got my paperwork from the ATF back in October and sent it in a week later. It's been over a month, which was how long it took my original 03 FFL to be processed, and nothing. I was wondering if anyone's gone through this recently and how long it took to get their renewed license?

Also, if by chance I don't get it before my current one expires, is it considered a lapsed license? I know the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors' licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued, but other than not being able to use it until I get the new one, is there any other ramifications?

I honestly haven't used it much, at first I did order a lot of C&R firearms online or bought them from out-of-state sellers which made having the license a good thing; but over the past couple of years I've either focused on other areas or bought them face-to-face locally.

Cheers! M2

 

[majormadmax]

Well, it's 1 Jan 2013 and no word from the ATF. I guess they're preoccupied with the possibility of a AWB next year, but I sent off my documents on 11 October and it should not take this long to get a response from them. When I got my initial 03 FFL, it took 30 days from mailing to receipt.

I might give the Federal Firearms Licensing Center a call tomorrow (866 662-2750), my concern is that facility is in Martinsburg, WV and the packets are mailed off to a location in Atlanta, GA.

With all the craziness going on with "assault weapons," C&R firearms may be the only thing worth looking at during next weekend's gun show!

Cheers! M2

 

[Rentz]

got my c&r this past year and it took 3months to get. So i'd say it's likely the renewal will take about that

 

[majormadmax]

Thanks Rentz, I actually didn't use it much over the past year-and-a-half; but did when I first got it.

The website that I got info on renewing stated you could NOT buy/sell any C&R firearms in the interim, I think that's wrong.

There are no Federal prohibitions on selling C&R weapons without an 03 FFL, it's just that I cannot have one sent directly to me from out of state.

Otherwise, I could purchase or sell these guns the same as I would any other.

I've sent them an email noting this error, we'll see what they say in response.

Cheers! M2

 

[BrenGunner]

03 FFL (C&R) Renewal

Renewals were only taking a few weeks last I heard.
Ill see if I can find the specific literature but you can dispose of C&Rs with an expired license, I would still record it though.

Ill see if I can find the section about interim periods. I recall something about if you've submitted for renewal you can Still engage in business. Sorry for being vague I don't want to try and quote anything without sources.

My C&R is the only reason I'm going to brave the show next weekend in SA

 

[majormadmax]

I did find this in ATF Pub 5300.11 (The C&R Firearms List)...

§478.47 Issuance of license. (c) The Chief, National Licensing Center, shall approve or the Director of Industry Operations shall deny an application for license within the 60-day period beginning on the date the properly executed application was received: Provided, That when an applicant for license renewal is a person who is, pursuant to the provisions of § 478.78, § 478.143, or §478.144, conducting business or collecting activity under a previously issued license, action regarding the application will be held in abeyance pending the completion of the proceedings against applicant’s existing license or license application, final determination of the applicant’s criminal case, or final action by the Director on an application for relief submitted pursuant to § 478.144, as the case may be.

But I'm not sure what it means...

But as for keeping the bound book when I don't have current 03 FFL, 27 CFR 478.125(f) states only licensed collectors are required to keep a “bound book” record, so I don't believe there is a legal requirement to do so if a person doesn't have valid license.

Cheers! M2

 

[Charlie]

I got my last renewal back in about 6 weeks but before that it usually took a month or less. I don't use it much except to get discounts from Brownell's, Graf's, Midway, etc.

 

[rsayloriii]

03 FFL (C&R) Renewal

Last year I had to change my address. Didn't hear from them after 2 months. I sent an email checking on it, and had the updated one by the end of the week. Definitely put some pressure on them. I just had to change it again. See how long it takes this time ...


Sent from my RobCo Pip-Boy 3000.

 

[BrenGunner]

03 FFL (C&R) Renewal

Here it is.

Under § 478.45, Renewal of License, if a licensee intends to continue the business or activity described on a license issued under this part during any portion of the ensuing year, the licensee shall, unless otherwise notified in writing by the Chief, FFLC, execute and file with ATF prior to the expiration of the license an application for a license renewal, ATF Form 8 Part II, in accordance with the instructions on the form, and the required fee. In the event the licensee does not timely file an ATF Form 8 Part II, the licensee must file an ATF Form 7 as required by § 478.44, and obtain the required license before continuing business. A renewal application will automatically be mailed by ATF to the “mailing address” on the license approximately 90 days prior to the expiration of the license. If the application is not received 30 days prior to the expiration date, the licensee should contact the FFLC.

When you have sent your Federal Firearms License (FFL) Renewal Application, ATF Form 8 Part II, to ATF prior to the expiration of your federal firearms license and the application form has been postmarked before the expiration date, you may request a Letter of Authorization (LOA) from the Federal Firearms Licensing Center (FFLC) to facilitate and carry on your business operations while your renewal application is in a pending status. The LOA provides evidence to your distributors that you may continue your business operations under your current license until ATF has completed the processing of your renewal application, even if the time needed by ATF to process the application extends beyond the expiration date of the current license. The LOA will state that operations may continue under the existing license for a period of up to six months. If the FFLC does not complete processing of the application within the six month period specified in the LOA, you may request the FFLC to extend the LOA. You may also provide copies of the LOA to your suppliers.

 

[majormadmax]

Interesting, the gentleman that runs the aforementioned website that I used sent me this, which references the same regulation...

Q: If a person timely files an application for renewal of a license and the present license expires prior to receipt of the new license, may the person continue to conduct the business covered by the expired license?

Yes. A person who timely files an application for renewal of a license may continue operations authorized by the expired license until the application is finally acted upon. An application is timely filed when it is received accurate and completed at the P.O. Box listed on the application form with the appropriate renewal fee.

If a person does not timely file a license renewal application and the license expires, the person must file ATF Form 7 (5310.12), Application for License, or an ATF Form 7CR (5310.16), Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics), as required by 27 CFR 478.44, submit the application fee applicable to a new business, and obtain the required license before continuing business activity.

[27 CFR 478.45]

Considering I filed over 75 days prior to the expiration of my current license, I would considering this approval to continue using my old one until such time as the new one arrives; but I still plan to contact the ATF tomorrow to confirm that as well as get a status.

Cheers! M2

 

[BrenGunner]

03 FFL (C&R) Renewal

Interesting, the gentleman that runs the aforementioned website that I used sent me this, which references the same regulation...



Considering I filed over 75 days prior to the expiration of my current license, I would considering this approval to continue using my old one until such time as the new one arrives; but I still plan to contact the ATF tomorrow to confirm that as well as get a status.

Cheers! M2

Best of luck! Maybe ill catch ya this weekend

 

[majormadmax]

UPDATE: I just called the ATF Federal Firearms Licensing Center in West Virginia. The lady that answered was able to check the status of my renewal. It was received on 1 Nov (I mailed it on 29 Oct) and that she saw no action letters being sent out so basically there was nothing to indication there were any issues with my renewal.

She forwarded my call to the examiner for this part of Texas but I got his voicemail. I left a message to inquire on the status of my 03 FFL and left my contact info. Hopefully I will be here when he calls, as I would like to know if the "continuing operations authorization" applies in my case. I believe it does, but I would like confirmation from the ATF of that.

While I don't use my C&R much, I still like the ability to purchase eligible firearms from other states and have them shipped directly to my residence. I feel that alone is worth the $30 fee for three years.

Cheers! M2

 

[majormadmax]

Well, guess what finally arrived in the mail today!

Here's how it happened, as you know from my last post the ATF appears to have "misplaced" my renewal application (lesson learned: if you don't have your new license after about 30 days, call them!). I found the copies I had made and scanned and sent them to the examiner I talked with. After a couple of days, I didn't hear anything so I emailed him and he said he never got them. I sent them again to the same email address and this time he acknowledged receipt. The next day (last Friday) he emails me a copy of my new license and today I get the hardcopy in the mail.

As I've stated, it should not take the ATF more than thirty days to process an 03 FFL. If you don't get it after about a month, contact them. Here is the info to do so:

FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSING CENTER
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405
1-866-662-2750 (phone)
1-866-257-2749 (fax)

If a renewal, look at the first three numbers of your current license and contact the appropriate examiner below:

5-74 Texas (Houston FD) - Reese Powell - 304-616-4606
5-75 Texas (Dallas FD) - Michelle Shepard Bingaman - 304-616-4625
5-76 Texas (Houston FD) - Theresa Penwell - 304-616-4628

Note that these individuals are not located in Texas, but West Virginia. My examiner had no problem with my contacting him (kinda gives away who I had!), especially since my renewal was overdue.

The thing that I felt was odd with my new copy was the inclusion of small, wallet-sized cards at the bottom. My last one didn't have that. There is also a FFL Newsletter available by sending your name, FFL number and email address to: FFLNewsletter@atf.gov

I have no idea if it's worth it, but I will still sign up just to see if it is.

Lastly, don't forget that you DON'T sign the original 03 FFL! Make copies and use (and sign) them when purchasing or selling eligible firearms.

Hopefully this will be useful to anyone applying or renewing their 03 FFL. I don't use mine as much as I used to, but I still think that for the price ($30 for three years), it's worth it especially in this panic market where C&R firearms may be some of the last reasonably-priced guns out there!

Cheers! M2

 

[BrenGunner]

03 FFL (C&R) Renewal

Well, guess what finally arrived in the mail today!

Here's how it happened, as you know from my last post the ATF appears to have "misplaced" my renewal application (lesson learned: if you don't have your new license after about 30 days, call them!). I found the copies I had made and scanned and sent them to the examiner I talked with. After a couple of days, I didn't hear anything so I emailed him and he said he never got them. I sent them again to the same email address and this time he acknowledged receipt. The next day (last Friday) he emails me a copy of my new license and today I get the hardcopy in the mail.

As I've stated, it should not take the ATF more than thirty days to process an 03 FFL. If you don't get it after about a month, contact them. Here is the info to do so:

FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSING CENTER
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405
1-866-662-2750 (phone)
1-866-257-2749 (fax)

If a renewal, look at the first three numbers of your current license and contact the appropriate examiner below:

5-74 Texas (Houston FD) - Reese Powell - 304-616-4606
5-75 Texas (Dallas FD) - Michelle Shepard Bingaman - 304-616-4625
5-76 Texas (Houston FD) - Theresa Penwell - 304-616-4628

Note that these individuals are not located in Texas, but West Virginia. My examiner had no problem with my contacting him (kinda gives away who I had!), especially since my renewal was overdue.

The thing that I felt was odd with my new copy was the inclusion of small, wallet-sized cards at the bottom. My last one didn't have that. There is also a FFL Newsletter available by sending your name, FFL number and email address to: FFLNewsletter@atf.gov

I have no idea if it's worth it, but I will still sign up just to see if it is.


Cheers! M2

Good info on the examiners. Thanks

I spent a lot of time on other forums trying to figure out the point if the cards at the bottom. Nobody knows the purpose.

Great info!
-Matt

 

[majormadmax]

An update, I just renewed my 03 FFL (C&R) again despite having only acquired one firearm with it over the past three years. It's simply a matter of being able to have these weapons shipped directly to my home if desired.

The process went better than it did three years ago (when my application was lost), I submitted my paperwork on 2 November and received my new license yesterday, 27 Nov; so 25 days.

I just scanned copies so I'll have them if/when needed.

Cheers! M2

 

[Mreed911]

An update, I just renewed my 03 FFL (C&R) again despite having only acquired one firearm with it over the past three years. It's simply a matter of being able to have these weapons shipped directly to my home if desired.

The process went better than it did three years ago (when my application was lost), I submitted my paperwork on 2 November and received my new license yesterday, 27 Nov; so 25 days.

I just scanned copies so I'll have them if/when needed.

Cheers! M2

Good to know. Mine is up for renewal next year.

 

[motorcarman]

Mine was 'up' in Nov 2015 and took about 3+weeks for the new one to show up in the mailbox.

bob

 

[majormadmax]

Good to know. Mine is up for renewal next year.

Mine wasn't up until 1 Jan 16; but based on my last renewal experience, I wanted to get the process going as soon as possible...

 

[Shady]

why not let it expire so you can toss your bound book and start over

 

[majormadmax]

why not let it expire so you can toss your bound book and start over

Why do that? No big deal keeping a bound book...