Venture Surplus ad

Not sure what I was expecting...

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    ... but pretty sure this isn't it.

    AWATT - Advanced Weapons and Tactical Training

    These folks have a "corporate" address in Tomball but train/shoot at the Trinity Armory Range in Cleveland.

    Rule #1 - Do not do business's with a company that clearly state. "WE DO NOT OFFER REFUNDS!" - There is a reason they make that statement and it is not to protect you!

    Today will be day #3.

    What can I say? It's been a fubar deal since day one. The problem, for me, is I don't know, exactly, what I was expecting. But I know, beyond reservation, this isn't it. We've spent 2 days doing exactly the same thing. Standing stationary shooting at metal targets, moving forward shooting at metal targets. On very rare occasions retreating - firing at metal targets. Today the instructor said he going to introduce a windowed structure that we'll be shooting through at different heights and positions.

    Most of the exercises involve distances of =>10 yds. I'm thinking that's not how it'll go down in real life. I was expecting, I suppose, drills ~3 yds. firing and retreating or something similar. I for sure was anticipating some close quarter drills. In the advancing while firing we do eventually get pretty close to the target but due to the danger of shooting metal targets @ close range we ain't that close. Advancing might be what military/LEO's may do. I suspect in real life we're going to be backing/retreating/standing still while firing. Could be wrong about that and I'm sure there's someone, or many, that will correct me if I am!:beat:

    How do you know you've made a mistake selecting a weapons training company?

    #1.) When you have to stop the instructor and advise the "NEW" shooter has an incorrect stance.
    #2.) When you have to stop the instructor and advise that the "NEW" shooter needs to learn to look the weapon back into the holster.
    #3.) When you have to stop the instructor and advise the "NEW" shooter should be explained what a sight picture is and the 3 generally accepted terms. 6 O'clock hold, Center Hold and Combat Hold.(by the way he never did - I really don't think he knows them.
    #4.) If your instructor picks up a weapon, leaves you taking break, and proceeds to shoot practice rounds on the range.

    Two things took place yesterday that absolutely blew my mind. First, my daughter is still flinching, at times, when firing. I told the instructor I had "Snap Caps" in my range bag if he wanted to load my daughters magazine for a few drills. He looked at me with a puzzled look while saying "Snap Caps - what's that?" Can this be real?

    Second - At the end of the session yesterday - outta the clear blue the instructor said:
    I'm only teaching you the mechanics of getting the weapon from the holster, to high ready and to extend the weapon to a firing position and back to the holster. "You can go somewhere else and use paper targets to work on your accuracy." YOU ARE FUCKING KIDDING ME RIGHT??? We live... we learn... sometimes... usually... the price of admission to the college of higher learning is more than we want to pay. Such is the case here.

    I told the instructor that some of the things I want my daughter taught is:

    Situational awarness
    Threat assessment
    Threat avoidance

    Soooo... shortly after that he defined what Situational awarness is. But not how to exercise it. "I"m always looking for a threat" YEAH... OK.... so define "Threat" help her understand what people do, how they act that makes you suspicious.

    Threat assessment - Very little on that. No... "If you see grandma pulling a AK47 out of a baby stroller.... that's probably a threat. "

    I had to mention looking for cover before you need it. He asked the question "What's the difference between cover and concealment."

    I fully intend to let my displeasure be known at the end of the day today. Why not now? The instructor isn't going to change. I fully believe we're getting all he's got now - he just don't have much. There's no point in having a pissed off instructor conducting the last days drills - 'least I can't think of any positives that could come of of.

    Understand... the things I've mentioned hear are the glaring, YFK-R, moments. The entire time I'm getting feed back from the instructor that the benefits of taking this course will be minimal at best. I can't remember all the thing I've seen/heard that disappoint.

    Beyond that... all I can do is advise folks not to waste their money on this company.
    Capitol Armory ad
     
    Last edited:

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    Almost 100% of the time if the word “tactical” is in a training company’s name, it will be 100% bullshit.

    Problem is, if you try to tell someone this the butthurt expands to astronomical proportions. Then they take the “tacticool” class and learn for themselves.
    Hope it was not too expensive a lesson.
     

    Moonpie

    Omnipotent Potentate for hire.
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Oct 4, 2013
    24,106
    96
    Gunz are icky.
    Almost 100% of the time if the word “tactical” is in a training company’s name, it will be 100% bullshit.

    Problem is, if you try to tell someone this the butthurt expands to astronomical proportions. Then they take the “tacticool” class and learn for themselves.
    Hope it was not too expensive a lesson.

    yep.
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    $1,500.00 for 3 days....
    Damn dude. Not a paid advertiser but my Situational Awareness class is $250, about 4-6 hours, covers a lot of walking around Austin and areas near by ending with a couple of hours of shoot/don’t shoot and general fun stuff at a private range. Oh, and part of the SA is making observations at a restaurant where I buy lunch. Only do a max of 2 students at a time( prefer to do 1-1)
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    Damn dude. Not a paid advertiser but my Situational Awareness class is $250, about 4-6 hours, covers a lot of walking around Austin and areas near by ending with a couple of hours of shoot/don’t shoot and general fun stuff at a private range. Oh, and part of the SA is making observations at a restaurant where I buy lunch. Only do a max of 2 students at a time( prefer to do 1-1)
    I had limited my search criteria to the Houston area. After the class, an I use that term loosely, I had to go hang sheet rock... Couldn't get too far from Houston. I didn't know of TGT until after the fact. If you want more excuses for why I made a dumbass decision - gotta bag full'ov'em!:green:
     

    MacZC7

    Well-Known
    BANNED!!!
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 11, 2020
    1,412
    96
    Texas
    Sounds like another case of a company just going through the motions and not taking it seriously but want to get paid. Wow
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    Just an aside.... The most glaring/obvious indication I was dealing with an out of touch instructor? When he admitted he had no knowledge of the TGT web site!:banghead:
     

    TipBledsoe

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jun 28, 2020
    3,731
    96
    LaVernia TX
    I appreciate you keeping your ego in check, but you're beating yourself up too bad. One would naturally assume things at face value without having to research into such a place to insure that they actually perform the service they advertise.
    Thank you for making us aware of this situation.
     

    Jarine88

    Well-Known
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jul 24, 2018
    2,431
    96
    Tomball
    I wrote up a nice long reply and then lost it.

    I am not defending the owners, but I am guessing they are offering a beginner tactical course and not a beginner firearms course. Those are very different things. My guess is that they would expect people coming for tactical training to have basic firearms training down.

    As a Marine Corps veteran, I can tell you that the training I received in the Corps made me a good shooter, but beyond the basics (i.e., breathing control, sight alignment and sight picture) very little carriers over to the civilian world. Your instructor is probably just passing on things he remembers from his training in the service. We trained for combat, not self defense. We trained to kill the enemy, and did not think about the use of deadly force that must be considered as a civilian. We never used snap caps. We didn’t get training not to flinch, beyond standard military bearing. We did do a lot of repetition. Also, we did spend time learning the difference between cover and concealment (thus his question to you).

    Hot Wells in Cypress used to have a beginner firearms course that was pretty good. My wife took it, I didn’t. They also had some advanced courses, but I cannot speak to the quality.

    Regardless of the training issues, I do think something good has come out of this. You got to spend 3 days shooting pistols with your daughter. That sir, is awesome.
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    Your last comment, and the truth therein, has been the salvation of this ordeal. Early on, without rantin' and ravin', I let my daughter know I was not pleased with how things were going. Didn't want her disappointed that "Dad" wasn't happy. Yes... without a doubt... I'm tickled we got to share the experience! She has been doing far better than 'Dad'. Seems she remembers what the instructor is telling her and can put it into action. She also ask me on the ride home "What did you think of today's training?" So I tell her. Also... yesterday morning I printed out the three prevalent "Sight Pictures" for her to review.

    About what I signed up for vs what I got. I dunno... you could be right. My defense of that possibility: I did let the owner know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we were both new/inexperienced shooters. But if I was an experienced shooter of some degree, I'd be extremely disappointed. It's like I landed it the world of in-between. Not beginner, not intermediate and for sure not advanced. Guess that's what's making it so difficult to put my finger on my displeasure - beyond the already stated WTF instances.

    For those not aware... My daughter is from Georgia and will be returning there later this week. Thus the not pursuing further training here. I have located a company close to where she lives that provideds:

    1.) Outside the home self-defense
    2.) Inside the home self-defense
    3.) Automobile relative self-defense

    Notice.... the word "tactical" is not present in any of their courses!
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    Did you talk with this company about your expectations before spending money to reserve a seat?
    Yes... I absolutely did. I stressed that my daughter had never fired the weapon she owns. I relayed an event that happened to her where poor decision making, on her part, could of gotten her - dead. I stressed what was important to me:
    Situational Awarness, Threat assessment, Threat avoidance.
    What hasn't been revealed to this point the owner told me: "You will have two instructors myself and a retired SEAL. We are very good at detecting what is not being learned and re-enforcing that training!" All I can say to that is "BULLSHIT!" I have yet to see the owner/second instructor.

    But to re-affirm - YES, I was very clear in my expectations prior to dropping the coin(s).
     

    seeker_two

    My posts don't count....
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 1, 2008
    11,498
    96
    That place east of Waco....
    Damn dude. Not a paid advertiser but my Situational Awareness class is $250, about 4-6 hours, covers a lot of walking around Austin and areas near by ending with a couple of hours of shoot/don’t shoot and general fun stuff at a private range. Oh, and part of the SA is making observations at a restaurant where I buy lunch. Only do a max of 2 students at a time( prefer to do 1-1)
    That's a great deal on a situational awareness class....

    ....although, the walking around Austin part is a little much. Do you offer this class at cities in Texas?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    That's a great deal on a situational awareness class....

    ....although, the walking around Austin part is a little much. Do you offer this class at cities in Texas?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    When time allows these days. I live near Austin. The walking around is to have the student look objectively/critically at things they see every day and have developed a normalcy bias towards( congregations of homeless, homeless camps, Karens, etc,)
     
    Top Bottom