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Gaining interest in revolvers

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  • DyeF9

    In Thrust We Trust
    Jan 25, 2019
    2,407
    96
    Red Oak TX
    And don't forget to carry on an empty chamber. Load one, skip one, load 4. :)
    Definitely if Im going to wear em in a rig. I've been dumping a pretty considerable amount of time listening, watching and reading about revolvers, particularly old west ones. I like the stories and history associated with them. Probably work my way to the noir classics of the murder mysteries with detectives and their trusty snubbies
     

    robertc1024

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    Jan 22, 2013
    20,780
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    San Marcos
    Sounds interesting. Learn any good tidbits? I was thinking about a Colt Walker replica at some point
    You might want to look at a Dragoon 3rd gen. They are better mechanically in some ways than the Walkers.
     

    SQLGeek

    Muh state lines
    Sep 22, 2017
    9,591
    96
    Richmond
    Sounds interesting. Learn any good tidbits? I was thinking about a Colt Walker replica at some point

    In short, it was a technical article about why Lyman #2 Alloy is what it is and the ideal temperature for casting the alloy so that tin and antimony completely dissolve in the lead solution.

    It also covered why Zinc above 2% in lead didn't dissolve but at very very high temperatures and why zinc is a shitty thing to have in your lead for bullet casting. I found the article pretty fascinating.

    Another article talked about why pure lead was ideal for muzzle loaders.
     

    DyeF9

    In Thrust We Trust
    Jan 25, 2019
    2,407
    96
    Red Oak TX
    In short, it was a technical article about why Lyman #2 Alloy is what it is and the ideal temperature for casting the alloy so that tin and antimony completely dissolve in the lead solution.

    It also covered why Zinc above 2% in lead didn't dissolve but at very very high temperatures and why zinc is a shitty thing to have in your lead for bullet casting. I found the article pretty fascinating.

    Another article talked about why pure lead was ideal for muzzle loaders.

    Interesting. What's the benefit of the alloy?

    What was the summed up reason that zinc sucks for casted bullets? Didn't alloy well and caused fracture points?

    You might want to look at a Dragoon 3rd gen. They are better mechanically in some ways than the Walkers.

    What was the significant change from the Walker to the dragoon? Isn't the dragoon a smaller pistol?

    We need to have a cap&ball range day.

    I am definitely interested in attending that


    I like the #32PI Packing Iron from that list

    From El Paso Saddlery I like the Jesse James Rig
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
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    Nov 22, 2011
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    Spring
    We need to have a cap&ball range day.
    I need two years notice. Last time I checked, that was the wait time for the black powder pistol I want.

    If I can't get that much notice, I'll just bring lots of powder and hope you guys will let me fondle y'all's equipment.

    ;)
     

    SQLGeek

    Muh state lines
    Sep 22, 2017
    9,591
    96
    Richmond
    Interesting. What's the benefit of the alloy?

    Hardness for one. Pure lead has a BHN of 5-6. Lyman #2 which is 90% Pb, 5% Sn and 5% Sb has a BHN of about 15. You can drive harder bullets faster. Also alloy can fill a mold out better.

    What was the summed up reason that zinc sucks for casted bullets? Didn't alloy well and caused fracture points?

    That's the main reason. As it cools, it doesn't stay uniform. The phase diagram for Lead and Zinc above 2% Zinc shows that there isn't a good alloy that cools uniformly. That and you don't get a stable Lead-Zinc solution until 1000 F + depending upon how much Zinc you have.

    After reading about this, I'm now fully hooked on the casting. It's triggering the hidden engineer in me.
     

    DyeF9

    In Thrust We Trust
    Jan 25, 2019
    2,407
    96
    Red Oak TX
    I need two years notice. Last time I checked, that was the wait time for the black powder pistol I want.

    If I can't get that much notice, I'll just bring lots of powder and hope you guys will let me fondle y'all's equipment.

    ;)
    I don't have a cap and ball, I was just going to ask what ball ammo and powder I need to get then bring that with me. I'm sure Moonpie wont mind if I borrow his
     

    DyeF9

    In Thrust We Trust
    Jan 25, 2019
    2,407
    96
    Red Oak TX
    Hardness for one. Pure lead has a BHN of 5-6. Lyman #2 which is 90% Pb, 5% Sn and 5% Sb has a BHN of about 15. You can drive harder bullets faster. Also alloy can fill a mold out better.



    That's the main reason. As it cools, it doesn't stay uniform. The phase diagram for Lead and Zinc above 2% Zinc shows that there isn't a good alloy that cools uniformly. That and you don't get a stable Lead-Zinc solution until 1000 F + depending upon how much Zinc you have.

    After reading about this, I'm now fully hooked on the casting. It's triggering the hidden engineer in me.
    Makes me also want to do casting. I love metallurgy. I would be hesitant to do it without setting up a pretty well designed area for the task far away from the kiddos, and probably a back stock of filters for my respirator.
     

    TipBledsoe

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Jun 28, 2020
    3,731
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    LaVernia TX
    What's not to love about revolvers?
    I don't think you're interested in SA, but the Ruger Vaquero is really sweet.
    I'll second the vote for the Kimber K6s - Excellent choice for carry, but shooting magnums kicks like a mule!
    I love my Colt DS-II (38spl) and I see a 2020 Python in my very near future.
    I'm also quite partial to 22LR, and my Colt Diamondback is sooo so sweet!
    Back to considering carry, have you considered a Bond Arms Derringer?
     

    DyeF9

    In Thrust We Trust
    Jan 25, 2019
    2,407
    96
    Red Oak TX
    What's not to love about revolvers?
    I don't think you're interested in SA, but the Ruger Vaquero is really sweet.
    I'll second the vote for the Kimber K6s - Excellent choice for carry, but shooting magnums kicks like a mule!
    I love my Colt DS-II (38spl) and I see a 2020 Python in my very near future.
    I'm also quite partial to 22LR, and my Colt Diamondback is sooo so sweet!
    Back to considering carry, have you considered a Bond Arms Derringer?

    I'm not really interested in carrying revolvers necessarily. More about the owning and shooting them on the range. That may change in the future, but for the moment it's about range time. SA revolvers are awesome and incredibly enjoyable, which is why I bought the Cimarron Evil Roy Comp SA 5.5" in .357 Mag. I do however need to get a DA. I really need to work on my DA trigger fundamentals, and a DA revolver I think is the best way to do that.
     

    Moonpie

    Omnipotent Potentate for hire.
    Lifetime Member
    Oct 4, 2013
    24,106
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    Gunz are icky.
    The Walker-Colt was the first design after Colt returned to the market after being bankrupted by the Paterson Colt failure.
    Sam Walker, the Texas Ranger, had done some head-knocking with Sam Colt about re-designing the Paterson into a more powerful, robust, yet simpler gun. The end result was the Walker-Colt.
    This pistol essentially saved Colt from the dust bin of history.
    The Walker was the only gun Colt ever named after somebody because he was so grateful about its success.
    The original Walker had some issues. The metallurgy wasn't all that great at the time so many of them exploded.
    Debate rages why. The original conical bullet for the Walker was known as a "Pitchard" bullet. Once the gun got fouled this bullet became very difficult to load base down so some people loaded it pointed nose first. This configuration is believed to channel pressure to the outer walls of the cylinder causing rupture. Anyways today we use roundballs with great success. Modern repros are made of good steel and they can easily withstand full power loads.
    Another design flaw of the Walker is the unsecured loading lever. With use it becomes loose and drops down during firing thus jamming the cylinder rotation. Original users just used a piece of leather or brass wrapped around the barrel to hold the lever in place. There are a couple of fixes you can do on a reproduction to make this less of a problem.
    Anyways back to the time line...……...
    The flaws in the Walker design were quickly improved via the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Dragoon models. Originally these guns were merely known as the "Army Pistol". The Dragoon name came later with the 1st,2nd,3rd designations created by later collectors. The main difference of Dragoon vs. Walker is a slightly shorter chambers/cylinder and a latch for the loading lever on the barrel.
    A fully loaded Walker will hold 60grns of blackpowder.
    A Dragoon about 50grns.
    The 3rd Dragoon was the last iteration of the design so its the most practical for shooting but it just doesn't have the mystique and romance of the Walker.
    So all I can recommend is to get both!
     

    DyeF9

    In Thrust We Trust
    Jan 25, 2019
    2,407
    96
    Red Oak TX
    The Walker-Colt was the first design after Colt returned to the market after being bankrupted by the Paterson Colt failure.
    Sam Walker, the Texas Ranger, had done some head-knocking with Sam Colt about re-designing the Paterson into a more powerful, robust, yet simpler gun. The end result was the Walker-Colt.
    This pistol essentially saved Colt from the dust bin of history.
    The Walker was the only gun Colt ever named after somebody because he was so grateful about its success.
    The original Walker had some issues. The metallurgy wasn't all that great at the time so many of them exploded.
    Debate rages why. The original conical bullet for the Walker was known as a "Pitchard" bullet. Once the gun got fouled this bullet became very difficult to load base down so some people loaded it pointed nose first. This configuration is believed to channel pressure to the outer walls of the cylinder causing rupture. Anyways today we use roundballs with great success. Modern repros are made of good steel and they can easily withstand full power loads.
    Another design flaw of the Walker is the unsecured loading lever. With use it becomes loose and drops down during firing thus jamming the cylinder rotation. Original users just used a piece of leather or brass wrapped around the barrel to hold the lever in place. There are a couple of fixes you can do on a reproduction to make this less of a problem.
    Anyways back to the time line...……...
    The flaws in the Walker design were quickly improved via the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Dragoon models. Originally these guns were merely known as the "Army Pistol". The Dragoon name came later with the 1st,2nd,3rd designations created by later collectors. The main difference of Dragoon vs. Walker is a slightly shorter chambers/cylinder and a latch for the loading lever on the barrel.
    A fully loaded Walker will hold 60grns of blackpowder.
    A Dragoon about 50grns.
    The 3rd Dragoon was the last iteration of the design so its the most practical for shooting but it just doesn't have the mystique and romance of the Walker.
    So all I can recommend is to get both!
    Thanks for the history. I had heard bits of that, not the dragoon parts at all though.

    I definitely agree with the last sentence get both. The walkers I've seen aren't really that much. I saw one NIB for something like $390
     
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