Ever want to buy a used gun but...

Sam7sf · Apr 17, 2020

Shady said:
Call any gun store and say you are from OK and want to buy a used pistol.

The only correct answer would be whats your FFL's address.

I deleted my first reply. You are correct in this scenario however the topic is of private sale. Still doesn’t change you being right. (Handguns) It goes back to my first post then ironically being a good idea to only do business with people you know are locals and good to go. No laws broken. No bos needed. Simple as that.

Shady · Apr 18, 2020

It may be a good idea to make you feel good that you deal with someone you know is local and good to go.

But that is the point its a feeling just like any other do good thing most liberal people use to justify what they are doing. And don't say I am calling you a liberal i am not. I am just pointing out feelings have nothing to do with laws.

Sam7sf said:
I deleted my first reply. You are correct in this scenario however the topic is of private sale. Still doesn’t change you being right. (Handguns) It goes back to my first post then ironically being a good idea to only do business with people you know are locals and good to go. No laws broken. No bos needed. Simple as that.

Sam7sf · Apr 18, 2020

Shady said:
It may be a good idea to make you feel good that you deal with someone you know is local and good to go.

But that is the point its a feeling just like any other do good thing most liberal people use to justify what they are doing. And don't say I am calling you a liberal i am not. I am just pointing out feelings have nothing to do with laws.

I appreciate the conversation. Seriously. It’s helped me paint a better picture of feelings vs interpretation of state requirements after re-reading your responses and state penal code.

Axxe55 · Apr 18, 2020

Sam7sf said:
I appreciate the conversation. Seriously. It’s helped me paint a better picture of feelings vs interpretation of state requirements after re-reading your responses and state penal code.

Shady is correct. It's about being compliant with the law of our state.

But, I'd go a step further about the feelings. Even if I didn't know about the background of someone I was selling a gun to, and my gut instinct said don't, legally I'd be compliant. But personally, I would refuse to sell that person my gun.

Aus_Schwaben · Jul 7, 2020

If a bill of sale is a problem or, as someone suggested, they demand to see my bill of sale, then there is always a legal transfer via a 4473 through a dealer. That way, both parties are covered.

What I do not understand is why people attack or denigrate those who do want a bill of sale or a transfer. We, as firearm owners, are already under attack and I wonder why we are not able to respect each other over this.

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

Selling through an FFL "may cover" (whatever that means) a buyer or seller, but..... A bill of sale means virtually nothing! If a notary is present for the sale and "signs off" on something, it "may" help in a courtroom but probably not because a notary only indicates a person is, in fact, who they say they are, not that the gun is, or is not stolen, etc.

ZX9RCAM · Jul 7, 2020

He does have a valid question, as far as I'm concerned.
People against a BOS get pretty hostile.

I'm not signing one, but....

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

Aus_Schwaben said:
If a bill of sale is a problem or, as someone suggested, they demand to see my bill of sale, then there is always a legal transfer via a 4473 through a dealer. That way, both parties are covered.

What I do not understand is why people attack or denigrate those who do want a bill of sale or a transfer. We, as firearm owners, are already under attack and I wonder why we are not able to respect each other over this.

If one does a little research on the discussions here on the forum regarding a bill of sale, one would find a tremendous amount of information about all aspects of the good vs. no good use of the famous BOS!

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

ZX9RCAM said:
He does have a valid question, as far as I'm concerned.
People against a BOS get pretty hostile.

I'm not signing one, but....

I don't think folks are just tired of explaining what a BOS really is and is not and it's lack of value in a gun sale.

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

If someone wanted to buy a gun from me and wanted to go to an FFL, I would have no problem with that but I'm not paying for it.

ZX9RCAM · Jul 7, 2020

Charlie said:
I don't think folks are just tired of explaining what a BOS really is and is not and it's lack of value in a gun sale.

You "don't", or you do?

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

Pardon, "I do" think everyone is tired of talking about the "non" value of a BOS.

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

I personally would like to see a Texas drivers license from the buyer. I don't need to record anything or even see the name as long as his/her picture is there.

toddnjoyce · Jul 7, 2020

Aus_Schwaben said:
...What I do not understand is why people attack or denigrate those who do want a bill of sale or a transfer. We, as firearm owners, are already under attack and I wonder why we are not able to respect each other over this.

Like all things on the internet, the discussion devolves when there are strong opinions on either side.

Also, “we” as firearm owners aren’t exactly a homogeneous group. Some don’t want .gov interference or paper trails. Some are legal eagles and will only comply with the basic requirements of the law.

Some are worry worts, and will do anything/everything to minimize as much perceived risk as possible. Some are just ignorant of the applicable laws and regulations, others are just bullheaded.

jordanmills · Jul 7, 2020

Charlie said:
Selling through an FFL "may cover" (whatever that means) a buyer or seller, but..... A bill of sale means virtually nothing! If a notary is present for the sale and "signs off" on something, it "may" help in a courtroom but probably not because a notary only indicates a person is, in fact, who they say they are, not that the gun is, or is not stolen, etc.

IMO that just gives you that many more chances to trip yourself up and answer incorrectly then get convicted on a stupid technicality (and they might redefine the terms after the fact just to make sure they make an example of you).

https://www.gpb.org/news/2014/06/17/supreme-court-rules-against-gun-straw-purchases

In this case, Bruce Abramski Jr. offered to buy a Glock 19 handgun in Virginia for his uncle in Pennsylvania because Abramski thought he could get a law enforcement discount on the gun.

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

I'm one of the ".... bullheaded"! :banana:

Whistler · Jul 7, 2020

If you want a BOS more power to you. I don't agree it provides the protection you think it does and it really boils down to "I don't know you".

The other side of that coin is "I don't know you" either, you could be selling me a stolen gun for example and its a little insulting you don't trust me but I'm supposed to trust you.

For me personally I'm not willing to give any stranger that amount of personal information along with my signature, identity theft is epidemic. I also don't think Uncle Sugar needs to know everything about my business and its one of the main reasons I even consider used guns.

No hostility from me, I just keep looking when I see BOS and by the way... GLWS

ZX9RCAM · Jul 7, 2020

jordanmills said:
IMO that just gives you that many more chances to trip yourself up and answer incorrectly then get convicted on a stupid technicality (and they might redefine the terms after the fact just to make sure they make an example of you).

https://www.gpb.org/news/2014/06/17/supreme-court-rules-against-gun-straw-purchases

Wording is everything.....

Charlie · Jul 7, 2020

Quote from Whistler:
"For me personally I'm not willing to give any stranger that amount of personal information along with my signature, identity theft is epidemic. I also don't think Uncle Sugar needs to know everything about my business and its one of the main reasons I even consider used guns.."
I agree 100%!

MTA · Jul 7, 2020

Ive passed on countless deals due to the BOS requirement

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