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BLM - the narrative is simply false

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  • Whistler

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    So here's the thing, your ability to exercise your right ends where mine begin. It is my right to travel freely, it is your right to peacefully protest however the exercise of your right cannot interfere with mine. My grandfather phrased it more succinctly - your right to swing your fist ends where my nose starts.
     

    Rhino

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    that is irrelevant, you cannot legally block roads or highways. The reason is clear.
    I think that penal code is wrong (like it is when it infringes on weapons, too), and counter to the spirit of the right of assembly, and counter to what I suspect would have been true in earlier times. If the town square was the center of town and the main road, you can't clear a protest in a violent manner to travel through. Also forcing people onto tiny sidewalks is a disgusting tactic.

    Sec. 27. RIGHT OF ASSEMBLY; PETITION FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. The citizens shall have the right, in a peaceable manner, to assemble together for their common good; and apply to those invested with the powers of government for redress of grievances or other purposes, by petition, address or remonstrance.
     

    Rhino

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    The Bill of Rights applies to government infringement not other citizens. Society functions under social contract that assures reasonable exercise of everyone's rights. Yours are not more important than mine.
    Yeah, but I hope you give way to fire trucks and ambulances, and have some consideration when your fellow citizens believe that their Constitutionally protected enumerated rights are being violated, just like I hope the protesters will grow in wisdom.

    What concerns me is the lack of sympathy driven by personal inconvenience.
     
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    Whistler

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    I have no problem with protesters unless they block the road or otherwise interfere with peaceful exercise of my rights.

    I do NOT care for looters or rioters as those are not lawful activities and are not within individual rights.

    That said I don't agree with the basis of this protest because it is a false narrative. That doesn't mean I would interfere with their protest or that I think they don't have the right. Its not illegal to be stupid or wrong.

    Derek Chauvin was wrong, was arrested and charged. He will be dealt with by our legal system imperfect as it may be.

    If they were to protest the militarization of police or the overly zealous enforcement of petty ordinances I might even join them.
     

    Rhino

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    I have no problem with protesters unless they block the road or otherwise interfere with peaceful exercise of my rights.

    I do NOT care for looters or rioters as those are not lawful activities and are not within individual rights.

    That said I don't agree with the basis of this protest because it is a false narrative. That doesn't mean I would interfere with their protest or that I think they don't have the right. Its not illegal to be stupid or wrong.

    Derek Chauvin was wrong, was arrested and charged. He will be dealt with by our legal system imperfect as it may be.

    If they were to protest the militarization of police or the overly zealous enforcement of petty ordinances I might even join them.
    See, I think that blocking the highway is not good PR, but it's not fundamentally significantly different than a large group of people surrounding a county courthouse in a small town, either, and getting petty on where the protest takes place starts to be an issue IMO. It'd be too easy for some government to build a building where there is no public grounds around it and force a situation where only a small number of people could gather and make sure there was no private property free for use, either. That's a dangerous path to go down using technicalities to prevent the exercise of the Bill of Rights.
     

    Whistler

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    It'd be too easy for some government to build a building where there is no public grounds around it and force a situation where only a small number of people could gather and make sure there was no private property free for use, either. That's a dangerous path to go down using technicalities to prevent the exercise of the Bill of Rights.

    I don't necessarily disagree but that horse is already out of the barn
     

    Axxe55

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    What we think the penal code should be and what it is are two different things entirely.

    I think 30.6/.07 allows unconstitutional discrimination; that does not mean I can ignore the prohibition against exercising my 2d Amendment right.

    Exactly. Just because i disagree with a law, that I may think is unfair, or unjust, doesn't necessarily mean I can ignore or disobey that law. Personally, I think all seatbelt and helmet laws are unjust and nothing more than revenue generators, but I still abide by them.
     

    Rhino

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    Exactly. Just because i disagree with a law, that I may think is unfair, or unjust, doesn't necessarily mean I can ignore or disobey that law. Personally, I think all seatbelt and helmet laws are unjust and nothing more than revenue generators, but I still abide by them.
    I do, too, but this should be part of the consideration when people are discussing their rights, as it should be in our 2A discussions.
     

    TX OMFS

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    See, I think that blocking the highway is not good PR, but it's not fundamentally significantly different than a large group of people surrounding a county courthouse in a small town, either, and getting petty on where the protest takes place starts to be an issue IMO. It'd be too easy for some government to build a building where there is no public grounds around it and force a situation where only a small number of people could gather and make sure there was no private property free for use, either. That's a dangerous path to go down using technicalities to prevent the exercise of the Bill of Rights.
    A highway and surface streets around a government building are 2 different things.

    The problem with protestors on a highway is not that it inconveniences the sane people. The problem is the first few protesters on the highway may die before all the cars slow down then drivers further back may die from slamming into stopped cars on a highway.

    It doesn't matter your cause, blocking a highway should be illegal. An innocent motorist may have to live with killing someone bc of the illegal protestors.
    Show me a Tea Party event that blocked a highway. If it exists I'll criticize it too.

    As for feeling a protestors pain, if I don't agree with them in the first place then blocking a highway isn't going to improve their chances that I will agree with them.

    Is this really that hard?
     

    Frank59

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    The list of white women raped and killed by predatory "lives that matter" goes on and on but how many of them were remembered by nothing more than a brief candle light vigil and their mourning families. It's obvious that society accepts a level of murderous loss to appease the narrative that all white's are racists and all minorities are victims.
     

    Rhino

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    As for feeling a protestors pain, if I don't agree with them in the first place then blocking a highway isn't going to improve their chances that I will agree with them.
    Thats the PR part, and I fully agree with that conclusion.
     

    Younggun

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    The point of the protest is to get the leaders and the people’s attention. It *should* make you uncomfortable and if your comfort and peace is more important than their right to assemble in a manner that gets their voice heard for redress of their grievances then I won’t cry when your 2A rights aren’t defended by others, either. We need to hold all of the articles of the US and Texas Bill of Rights on equal footing. If you don’t want “infringement” on the 2A, don’t limit “where” a peaceful protest can take place on public property.

    You are making a huge leap from saying time no defending their violation of my right to travel freely is equal to someone not defending my right to do something that has no effect on others.

    Secondly, I’m not going to think about their situation and feel uncomfortable because the justice they are protesting about is already happening. People are charged with murder. These protests are based on a false narrative. Why would I feel bad for their fictional story?

    How many large conservative protests have blocked anything? Pretty sure the answer is zero and we clean up the place on the way out.

    What you are talking about is civil disobedience, not peaceful redress. Civil disobedience has a place, and consequences if you choose to take part.

    If a road will be blocked then you can get permits to block roads so that cities can make arrangements to keep everyone safe. It’s not a permit to exercise the 1A. It’s a permit to insure your choice to do so in a play where several tons of steel are moving at 70mph doesn’t use you for a speed bump.

    You have no right to stop someone’s travel and force them to listen to you. Your right is to speak, not to be heard by me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Rhino

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    You are making a huge leap from saying time no defending their violation of my right to travel freely is equal to someone not defending my right to do something that has no effect on others.

    Secondly, I’m not going to think about their situation and feel uncomfortable because the justice they are protesting about is already happening. People are charged with murder. These protests are based on a false narrative. Why would I feel bad for their fictional story?

    What you are talking about is civil disobedience, not peaceful redress. Civil disobedience has a place, and consequences if you choose to take part.

    If a road will be blocked then you can get permits to block roads so that cities can make arrangements to keep everyone safe. It’s not a permit to exercise the 1A. It’s a permit to insure your choice to do so in a play where several tons of steel are moving at 70mph doesn’t use you for a speed bump.

    You have no right to stop someone’s travel and force them to listen to you. Your right is to speak, not to be heard by me.
    I think protests can take varying forms, including disruptive measures as long as they don't harm your property or intentionally impede the path of a medical emergency. In the case of the recent Dallas County "orders" the ONLY way to assemble for redress of grievances was to presumably "break" the "orders" which forbade gathering. So would you say that exercising the freedom of assembly is civil disobedience in that case, too? I say no, that the "order" used to make it illegal contradicts the higher law of the land and is only "color" of law.

    How many large conservative protests have blocked anything? Pretty sure the answer is zero and we clean up the place on the way out.
    Forgotten already? https://www.businessinsider.com/ang...e-traffic-jam-to-protest-whitmer-order-2020-4

    There are a lot of underlying presumptions in your reply.

    Issues:
    1. Are we presuming public roads are a "right"? What about private roads?
    2. What about a situation where there is no "public" space, only private property? Does the king get to arrest you for protest simply because you are on one of his noble's property
     
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