DK Firearms

Looking to build two home defense specific shotguns and can't decide...

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • baboon

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    May 6, 2008
    22,450
    96
    Out here by the lake!
    J

    Baboon, someone brought up something similar years ago on another forum, and I'll respond as I did then.

    As much as it would pain me to clean blood, or human remains, or have to patch drywall from a 12ga, if it were done in defense of my family, I'd suffer in silence and thank God that they are safe.
    No doubt. Myself I prefer mopping up & using some bleach in the final mopping.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    No doubt. Myself I prefer mopping up & using some bleach in the final mopping.

    Exactly.

    These are some things that I think some people don't consider when accepting the burden of self defense, or defending their loved ones.

    But it's part of the responsibility that goes with it. The aftermath of that possible deadly use of force, isn't given as much thought or consideration as they do in choosing the firearm for that purpose.
     

    zackmars

    Free 1911 refinishing
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 4, 2015
    5,609
    96
    Texas
    A shotgun is a good choice for home defense. The need for buckshot of any kind is not required for defending a home. Bird shot 7.5 etc will take a man down and tho not fatal will end the fight.
    My college years were spent on ambulance crew and I can give detail results of these comments and the descriptions given by the shooters!


    JFC that is terrible advice

    No, 7.5 shot will not reliably incapacitate an attacker, and can not be counted to be non lethal.

    There are too many variables to say if 7.5 will stop a threat, or will be lethal.
     

    BuzzinSATX

    Well-Known
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Dec 20, 2013
    1,776
    96
    New Braunfels
    Satx, personally I'm partial to the shotgun, but that's a personal preference. Others shouldn't be dictated by my preferences.

    A person needs to choose what is best for them, based on their specific circumstances.

    I prefer reliable semi autos over manual actions for defense. If you want a shotgun for a petit person, look at the CZ 720 Reduced Length 20 gauge:

    https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...reduced-length-g2-semi-auto-shotgun/p/1477224

    I owned one until a friend talked me out of it for his missus (4’10”). She loves it. 4+1 capacity.

    Just a thought. I’d personally much prefer it to a Shockwave
     

    baboon

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    May 6, 2008
    22,450
    96
    Out here by the lake!
    I would not get an AR. That bullet will travel through walls and into neighboring houses, most likely. And, there will most likely be a lot of them fired in a panic situation. I would get a 12GA and train everyone. If they can't shoot it they shouldn't be considered for it.
    I'd be more concerned about hitting a gas pipe, water line or electric with either. My AR pistol is actually smaller & lighter then my Benelli entry gun. For in the house the AR pistol has 20 rounds of
    IMG_4092.JPG

    I doubt these will get much farther then the sheetrock. A double tap to the torso & they are going to dump all their energy. No exit & less blood to mop up. I also believe the hydrostatic shock on a human will put them down.
     

    Attachments

    • IMG_4092.JPG
      IMG_4092.JPG
      1.1 MB · Views: 534

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,540
    96
    Dallas
    I would not get an AR. That bullet will travel through walls and into neighboring houses, most likely. And, there will most likely be a lot of them fired in a panic situation. I would get a 12GA and train everyone. If they can't shoot it they shouldn't be considered for it.

    Testing defensive loads repeatedly shows this to be untrue.

    Links to many tests can be found in this article (as well as google):

    http://preparedgunowners.com/2016/0...for-home-defense-fbi-overpenetration-testing/




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,540
    96
    Dallas
    One thing to remember about shooting someone with a shotgun. Someone has to clean it up after the fact. My brother helped his BIL clean up after someone deep throated a 12 gauge in the BIL couch. Not a lot of people got the stomach for it, & those who get paid make crazy money.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Ioannes

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 12, 2019
    355
    46
    US
    I have a 590A1 in 12ga that Mrs. Ioannes has shot at the range, being 5'7 and 135. She hated it with a passion. Minishells worked better for her as did installing a Hogue buttstock, which reduced the LOP to something she could manage. Only problem is I haven't trained her yet how to rack the pump so as not to short cycle it.

    If it came down to having to use force, she'd rather fire my 10mm pistol, which she's not scared of.

    Maybe try a Persuader in 12ga with minishells? I've seen little girls shoot those with no issues.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I have a 590A1 in 12ga that Mrs. Ioannes has shot at the range, being 5'7 and 135. She hated it with a passion. Minishells worked better for her as did installing a Hogue buttstock, which reduced the LOP to something she could manage. Only problem is I haven't trained her yet how to rack the pump so as not to short cycle it.

    If it came down to having to use force, she'd rather fire my 10mm pistol, which she's not scared of.

    Maybe try a Persuader in 12ga with minishells? I've seen little girls shoot those with no issues.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

    You might also check out a youths 20ga. LOP would be shorter for someone of shorter stature.

    Plus the advantage of reduced recoil, and with the proper shells, just as effective at closer ranges inside the house.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I prefer reliable semi autos over manual actions for defense. If you want a shotgun for a petit person, look at the CZ 720 Reduced Length 20 gauge:

    https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...reduced-length-g2-semi-auto-shotgun/p/1477224

    I owned one until a friend talked me out of it for his missus (4’10”). She loves it. 4+1 capacity.

    Just a thought. I’d personally much prefer it to a Shockwave

    If the semi auto is reliable, I have to think it's a viable option for home defense.

    And there are quite a few even offered in 20ga. as well, if the person is of smaller stature, or recoil sensitive.
     

    Shoot&Reload

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 23, 2016
    183
    1
    Austin
    I own a KSG with a light mounted fore grip and a rubber butt pad. Without the pad it does have some kick, but with the pad my daughter (80 pounds) can operate it just fine. I can fit 22 mini shells, but I always have 5 Rubber slugs in one tube, and 11 mini buck in the other. Rubber slugs is the tube left open for home defense. If they miss, the sound of the shot will have him heading towards the exit, where you can choose to peg em with a rubber, and call the cops.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    Mohawk600

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Mar 31, 2018
    2,658
    96
    Austin
    As others have stated......55 gr JHP rounds out of an AR are very poor wall penetrators. They break up pretty quickly. 9mm is going to go through way more walls due to mass of the round.
     

    satx78247

    Member, Emeritus
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 23, 2014
    8,479
    96
    78208
    JFC that is terrible advice

    No, 7.5 shot will not reliably incapacitate an attacker, and can not be counted to be non lethal.

    There are too many variables to say if 7.5 will stop a threat, or will be lethal.

    zackmars; All,

    Actually birdshot at REALLY CLOSE range WILL reliably incapacitate an intruder, as it at "across the bedroom ranges" hits as a MASS & at that short range is as LETHAL as a load of buckshot.
    (Those who believe that birdshot will STOP an intruder but NOT kill are "in for a shock". = During my LE career, I investigated several deaths from loads of "small shot" from a shotgun at VERY short range. - The wound is generally 1-2" in size.)

    Beyond 10-15 FEET, you are 100% correct.

    ADDENDA: For those persons who want to use an EFFECTIVE but NON-LETHAL means to defend your loved ones & yourself at "inside the room range", find & buy yourself a PROWLER FOULER.
    (While that 6-ounce "bean bag" will NOT kill, it will make the intruder wish that they were DEAD. = I got hit with one in a training class years ago & it was like getting a hard hit from a heavy hammer to the chest. - I had a PAINFUL & "quite colorful" coffee-saucer sized bruise for WEEKS.)

    yours, satx
     
    Last edited:

    Charlie

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 19, 2008
    65,572
    96
    'Top of the hill, Kerr County!
    My vote would be for a 20 ga. (maybe a .410) pump with ammo that has some.30 cal, (+/i) balls in it. The pump will reduce the chance of accidentally firing, 20 ga. is plenty for the inside of a dwelling and much easier to be handled by older folks, younger folks, and people not used to shooting. Just my two bits.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    A lot of people like to perpetrate the myth that birdshot isn't effective, or lethal at close range. That buckshot or slugs are the only ammo acceptable for self defense.

    Bull puckey I say! Challenge any one of them to take a load of birdshot at close range. I'll bet all you hear are crickets!

    My caveat is that birdshot isn't as effective as buckshot or slugs, but at very close ranges as one would see within the house, yes, it can be lethal.

    I do have a couple of boxes of buckshot, and slugs, but most of the time, my shotguns are loaded with birdshot. Reason is, we are more likely to need them for snakes or coyotes than two legged predators.
     

    zackmars

    Free 1911 refinishing
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 4, 2015
    5,609
    96
    Texas
    A lot of people like to perpetrate the myth that birdshot isn't effective, or lethal at close range. That buckshot or slugs are the only ammo acceptable for self defense.

    Bull puckey I say! Challenge any one of them to take a load of birdshot at close range. I'll bet all you hear are crickets!

    My caveat is that birdshot isn't as effective as buckshot or slugs, but at very close ranges as one would see within the house, yes, it can be lethal.

    I do have a couple of boxes of buckshot, and slugs, but most of the time, my shotguns are loaded with birdshot. Reason is, we are more likely to need them for snakes or coyotes than two legged predators.


    I wouldn't step in front of a piss filled super soaker, that doesn't make it effective

    People who say birdshot is enough are wrong, as are the people who think birdshot is good as a less lethal option.

    Use appropriate loads, and pattern your gun. Halfway decent buckshot is still relatively cheap, and even high end stuff is not too expensive.
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,540
    96
    Dallas
    Birdshot looks pretty damaging to me...






    Here’s what Paul Harrell has to say about it:





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I wouldn't step in front of a piss filled super soaker, that doesn't make it effective

    People who say birdshot is enough are wrong, as are the people who think birdshot is good as a less lethal option.

    Use appropriate loads, and pattern your gun. Halfway decent buckshot is still relatively cheap, and even high end stuff is not too expensive.

    Maybe you should go back and re-read my last paragraph again.

    I'd sure like to see you step up and disprove my statements. Get your best buddy to shoot you with some #8 birdshot at about twenty feet.

    I'd also advise making out your last will and testament before attempting.

    Please try and prove me wrong. I have done my own informal testing of birdshot, at close ranges, on various materials, some years ago. Simply because I too thought only buckshot or slugs were appropriate ammo for self defense usage. Changed my mind.

    And if your shotgun happened to be loaded with birdshot shells, in the rare event you needed it to defend yourself, do think Mr. Bad guy is going to allow you time to change to buckshot?

    I have heard probably most every reason against using birdshot over the last decade or more. If you still think I'm wrong, then by all means, prove me wrong.
     

    satx78247

    Member, Emeritus
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 23, 2014
    8,479
    96
    78208
    Birdshot looks pretty damaging to me...




    pronstar,

    INTERESTING. Nonetheless, I wonder if either of those gentlemen have even ONCE had to examine a corpse shot with a shotgun of any sort at "across the bedroom" or longer range.

    I've, over the years of my LE career, likely investigated about 2 dozen shooting incidents (SD shootings, criminal homicides & suicides), where a shotgun was the weapon that did the damage.

    I can remember FOUR incidents, where the victim survived (including, believe it or not, one of the suicides = The shooter failed to hit his chest in an area where either major blood vessels, the heart or lungs were fatally damaged), at least long enough to reach a medical facility.

    Ranges varied from "contact" to about 40M. Shot sizes varied from #8 bird-shot to 000 Buck.
    (In case anyone wants to know, a load of #1 Buck in the mouth REMOVES the head almost completely & makes a real mess for someone to clean-up.)

    yours, satx



    Here’s what Paul Harrell has to say about it:





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Top Bottom