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Why "Not" 40 Caliber?

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    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    I asked you HOW MANY autopsies that you had attended & SEEN the results of & you did not respond to that query. = EXPERIENCE always TRUMPS theory.

    yours, satx


    You keep pushing this, i don't know why, do you want me to point out all the logical fallacies in your posts?

    You said nothing compares to remington golden saber, you don't list caliber or bullet weight, and go on to say that ony female agents got 9mm's and didn't use golden saber in that caliber.

    It's pretty clear your "experience" is extremely limited, and of limited value as you are comparing one load to another.


    How many autopsies I've seen? Zero. And honestly given what you've said, your experience isn't much more valuable.


    Amd cost, capacity, recoil is not theory. Which is, as I've said before, what gives 9mm the nod
     

    Whistler

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    9mm being cheaper, having less recoil, and allowing more capacity is not assumption

    It is fact

    Well... not exactly. There is no difference in price in my reloads based on what I payed for the components. My 9mm Kimber Micro has more felt recoil than my much heavier EMP .40, they hold the same number of rounds. In this case not a fact.

    I'm just trying to make a point your assertion 9mm is more effective is not necessarily unassailable. I like them all, the difference between my ability for follow up shots is negligible with my firearms I'm very familiar with but all things being equal the larger caliber is preferable. That is a fact, the other is a preference.

    I don't disagree with why you rationalize 9mm is better for you. I don't agree it's simply superior period.

    You've stated your opinion and your rationale. Nothing wrong with it at all but your insistence no one could possibly see it differently without being wrong is the source of the disagreement and candidly offputting.
     

    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    Get/Read The JAG Corps DA Pam entitled, "The Law of War". -The prohibition is there "in black & white", with the relevant DoD regulation referenced by number.

    yours, satx


    Cool 1000 plus page doc bro.

    Since it won't let me actually copy paste it, here's the gist

    We can use JHP's unless another nation prohibits it.

    Glad that's sorted
     

    cycleguy2300

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    So all things being equal expansion aside what would leave a larger wound channel, 9mm or .45? More chances to hit a vital? Wouldn’t a slightly larger wound channel also give you a slightly better chance of hitting a vital organ?
    Obviously the 45, but you are looking at on shot. But more slightly smaller holes is MUCH more more likely to stop what ever is being shot at. Follow up shots matter no matter the handgun caliber....

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
     

    zackmars

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    Well... not exactly. There is no difference in price in my reloads based on what I payed for the components. My 9mm Kimber Micro has more felt recoil than my much heavier EMP .40, they hold the same number of rounds. In this case not a fact.

    I'm just trying to make a point your assertion 9mm is more effective is not necessarily unassailable. I like them all, the difference between my ability for follow up shots is negligible with my firearms I'm very familiar with but all things being equal the larger caliber is preferable. That is a fact, the other is a preference.

    I don't disagree with why you rationalize 9mm is better for you. I don't agree it's simply superior period.

    You've stated your opinion and your rationale. Nothing wrong with it at all but your insistence no one could possibly see it differently without being wrong is the source of the disagreement and candidly offputting.

    Do i have to explain every little thing to you?

    If you took that emp 40, and converted it to 9mm, would it hold the same amount of ammo? No, it would hold more.

    If you convert a glock 22 to 9mm, would it hold the same amount of ammo? No it would hold more.

    If you put a round of 9mm next to a roumd of .40, are they the same size? No, 9mm is smaller.

    I was giving you just a little credit in assuming you understood that in any given space, 9mm gives you more room to work with.
     

    satx78247

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    Cool 1000 plus page doc bro.

    Since it won't let me actually copy paste it, here's the gist

    We can use JHP's unless another nation prohibits it.

    Glad that's sorted

    zackmars,

    In other words, you have NOT read the DA Pam & thus do NOT know what it says.
    (The DA Pam is available from the Superintendent of Documents in DC at "the cost of printing", IF you want to read it.)

    Fyi, I once was a "black hat" at USAMPS & taught TLOW, as one of my "podium spots".
    (I also taught Search & seizure", Arrests & Apprehensions, as well as a number of other subjects on an "as needed" basis.)

    yours, satx
     

    zackmars

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    Anywho... "Large" pistol calibers saw a resurgence during the AWB. Had that whole thing not happened, we'd probably be yelling at each other about revolvers.
     

    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    In other words, you have NOT read the DA Pam & thus do NOT know what it says.
    (The DA Pam is available from the Superintendent of Documents in DC at "the cost of printing", IF you want to read it.)

    Fyi, I once was a "black hat" at USAMPS & taught TLOW, as one of my "podium spots".
    (I also taught Search & seizure", Arrests & Apprehensions, as well as a number of other subjects on an "as needed" basis.)

    yours, satx

    You can download it online, like i did.

    As for everything else, good for you
     

    BMF500

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    Thanks for the read and the laughs!!:popcorn:

    I love how these always start with a specific question and turn into Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge arguments, then someone throws Toyota in the fight...:cowboy:
     

    Whistler

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    Do i have to explain every little thing to you?

    If you took that emp 40, and converted it to 9mm, would it hold the same amount of ammo? No, it would hold more.

    If you convert a glock 22 to 9mm, would it hold the same amount of ammo? No it would hold more.

    If you put a round of 9mm next to a roumd of .40, are they the same size? No, 9mm is smaller.

    I was giving you just a little credit in assuming you understood that in any given space, 9mm gives you more room to work with.

    If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass, if wishes were horses beggars would ride.

    I'm talking about the real world, two guns I own and would be likely to carry. I'd probably carry the Kimber but for none of the reason you postulate. The EMP is friggin' heavy.

    If we're arbitrarily coverting things let's just make them both 30 round carbines, now what? Hypothetical, not an invitation to discuss ballistics.

    Last I have to say on the topic, you're so convinced your opinion is simply the only correct view, you can't allow that anyone can see something differently without being wrong.

    I've done my best to convey a different perspective is not wrong because you've convinced yourself your view is the right and only view. To you more is better, to others bigger is better.

    Just an example of how freedom can be messy. Good for you, stick to your convictions.
     

    candcallen

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    Thanks for the read and the laughs!!:popcorn:

    I love how these always start with a specific question and turn into Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge arguments, then someone throws Toyota in the fight...:cowboy:
    I was a chevy guy till government motors fiasco. All fords since then.
     

    satx78247

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    You keep pushing this, i don't know why, do you want me to point out all the logical fallacies in your posts?

    You said nothing compares to remington golden saber, you don't list caliber or bullet weight, and go on to say that ony female agents got 9mm's and didn't use golden saber in that caliber.

    It's pretty clear your "experience" is extremely limited, and of limited value as you are comparing one load to another.


    How many autopsies I've seen? Zero. And honestly given what you've said, your experience isn't much more valuable.


    Amd cost, capacity, recoil is not theory. Which is, as I've said before, what gives 9mm the nod
    \

    zackmars,

    PITY that you "know NOT & know NOT that you know NOT". = IF you were even half as wise as you seem to think that you are, you would EXIT this forum, after apologizing to everyone for being SELF-important & insufferably arrogant.
    (Fyi, I attended & observed so many autopsies because the "veteran deputies" thought that it was FUNNY to send "the college kid" to postmortems, at every possible chance. - They didn't know & I didn't tell them that I essentially "grew up in" a city-county hospital, "picked up bodies" & drove both ambulances & hearses for CAVER BROTHER'S FUNERAL HOME.)

    My HS girlfriend's mother promised she/I that IF we got married after HS that the funeral home would pay for both of us to go to embalmer's & funeral director's school, pay our way through college & GIVE us a funeral home in Lufkin, TX as a wedding gift. = Her mom left us alone at their apartment overnight on the weekends so often that I've since wondered if her mom hoped that I would get Mary Jane "in a family way" & speed up our marriage.
    ("MJ" married someone else & her mom DID give the couple a funeral home as their wedding present.)

    yours, satx
     

    zackmars

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    \

    zackmars,

    PITY that you "know NOT & know NOT that you know NOT". = IF you were even half as wise as you seem to think that you are, you would EXIT this forum, after apologizing to everyone for being SELF-important & insufferably arrogant.
    (Fyi, I attended & observed so many autopsies because the "veteran deputies" thought that it was FUNNY to send "the college kid" to postmortems, at every possible chance. - They didn't know & I didn't tell them that I essentially "grew up in" a city-county hospital, "picked up bodies" & drove both ambulances & hearses for CAVER BROTHER'S FUNERAL HOME.)

    My HS girlfriend's mother promised she/I that IF we got married after HS that the funeral home would pay for both of us to go to embalmer's & funeral director's school, pay our way through college & GIVE us a funeral home in Lufkin, TX as a wedding gift. = Her mom left us alone at their apartment overnight on the weekends so often that I've since wondered if her mom hoped that I would get Mary Jane "in a family way" & speed up our marriage.
    ("MJ" married someone else & her mom DID give the couple a funeral home as their wedding present.)

    yours, satx

    I get the distinct impression you like to hear yourself talk
     

    zackmars

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    If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass, if wishes were horses beggars would ride.

    I'm talking about the real world, two guns I own and would be likely to carry. I'd probably carry the Kimber but for none of the reason you postulate. The EMP is friggin' heavy.

    If we're arbitrarily coverting things let's just make them both 30 round carbines, now what? Hypothetical, not an invitation to discuss ballistics.

    Last I have to say on the topic, you're so convinced your opinion is simply the only correct view, you can't allow that anyone can see something differently without being wrong.

    I've done my best to convey a different perspective is not wrong because you've convinced yourself your view is the right and only view. To you more is better, to others bigger is better.

    Just an example of how freedom can be messy. Good for you, stick to your convictions.


    My oponion is that 9mm edges out other rounds due to it's small size, cheap cost, low inherent recoil, all rooted in facts.

    For the past few months, I've been carrying my .45 1911, so don't even try that "oh your way must be the only way" bs.

    Because all I've done is point out the obvious. If that enrages you, or causes you to tell me your life story in essay form, thats not on me.



    Carry what you want, but you aren't achieving some mystical ballistic nirvana by shooting .40 or .45, or 9mm and it takes like 15 seconds of objective analysis why 9mm is still around, and why it's still so popular.

    But go ahead and argue about capacity or recoil. lol
     

    satx78247

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    I get the distinct impression you like to hear yourself talk

    zackmars,

    Well, at least I have over 2 decades of practical experience "in the field" as a LEO & careerist in the USA (mostly OCONUS). Otoh, you, based on your own posts, have exactly NONE.
    (All you seem to "know" is what you read in some book/article & repeated here.)

    As I said earlier, practical experience ALWAYS trumps reading a book/article/treatise on the subject and/or reading THEORY about the subject, written by an author who has little or no actual close combat experience. = The VAST majority of FBI agents have little or NONE of actual experience in GUNFIGHTS at all..

    yours, satx
     

    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    Well, at least I have over 2 decades of practical experience "in the field" as a LEO & careerist in the USA (mostly OCONUS). Otoh, you, based on your own posts, have exactly NONE.
    (All you seem to "know" is what you read in some book/article & repeated here.)

    As I said earlier, practical experience ALWAYS trumps reading a book/article/treatise on the subject and/or reading THEORY about the subject, written by an author who has little or no actual close combat experience. = The VAST majority of FBI agents have little or NONE of actual experience in GUNFIGHTS at all..

    yours, satx

    Yet every time you post a nugget of info (unlike your last two posts) they are buried under a bunch of unrealated nonsense, or are so illogical even a 5th grader could spend all day pointing out flaws.

    Go ahead and tell me again how some unstated gold saber load is superior to an unknown 9mm load again, lol.
     

    satx78247

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    I would like to say I'm all Mopar, but I do have 3 Fords in the driveway too.

    BMF500,

    Everything in our driveway are either M-B or FOMOCO products & mostly over 25YO.
    (My latest TREASURE is a one-owner 1992 Lincoln Town Car with 69,000 original miles, which will wear 1992 TX plates.)

    yours, satx
     

    roadkill

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    My oponion is that 9mm edges out other rounds due to it's small size, cheap cost, low inherent recoil, all rooted in facts.

    For the past few months, I've been carrying my .45 1911, so don't even try that "oh your way must be the only way" bs.

    Because all I've done is point out the obvious. If that enrages you, or causes you to tell me your life story in essay form, thats not on me.



    Carry what you want, but you aren't achieving some mystical ballistic nirvana by shooting .40 or .45, or 9mm and it takes like 15 seconds of objective analysis why 9mm is still around, and why it's still so popular.

    But go ahead and argue about capacity or recoil. lol

    So if 9 is better why do you carry a 45?
     
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