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Why "Not" 40 Caliber?

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    satx78247

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    Compare a 9mm 1911 fullsize mag to a .45 acp mag. A 9mm mag holds 9-10 while a .45 acp holds 7-8.

    Have you ever held a double stack .45?

    9mm nearly matches the ballistics of .45 while allowing more capacity, being cheaper, and having more plentiful choices in not only loadings, but firearms as well.

    .45 is only like 2 years older than 9mm, if it was better, the market would show less of a gap in sales.

    zackmars,

    The 9x19mm is DEFINITELY an INFERIOR STOPPER when Ball ammo is compared to Ball ammo from the GM in .45ACP.
    (Because of international agreements, FMJ is ALL that military personnel may carry "on the job".)

    ADDENDA: YES, I've held/fired a double-stack .45 on the range. My hands aren't large enough to shoot it well, so I've never owned one.

    Further, during the "Interwar era" & when we still had troops in the Philippines fighting the Moro, the 9x19mm and/or .38ACP (The USN had some Colt's GM in .38ACP but NOT in .38 Super.) was found to NOT STOP those fanatic native warriors, while the standard 230 grain FMJ .45ACP would "put them down for the count" & frequently GYD right then/there.

    yours, satx
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    Benjamin

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    The easy way to solve it would be to limit it to a single shot.
    Take cost, and round count out of it.

    Which caliber would you rather use?

    Not directed towards anyone in particular.
    I would rather use MY bullet fired from MY pistol not because of caliber, but because of familiarity. Greater chance of getting the round where it needs to go.
     

    satx78247

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    Golden saber is also avalible in 9mm, and is a JHP. Not sure why you talk as if it isn't.

    While post mortems can offer valuable insight, it isnt the whole story.

    zackmars,

    Fyi, our department did NOT issue Golden Saber to the LEO (FEMALE), who were issued a 9mm handgun. Remington 124 grain JHP "police only" ammo was "issue"- Thus, I don't know anything about the 9mm loading.

    I note that you didn't say how many autopsies that you have attended. - I probably have OBSERVED > 100 such procedures over the years.

    yours, satx
     

    Whistler

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    Im wrong lots of times, but some critical thinking kinda supports my posistion.

    Ha! You'll forgive my heresy if I question the conclusions of your "critical thinking" when they are couched in specific assumption. Were all the world as you imagine perhaps it would be so.
     

    satx78247

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    I've at least offered up sources for my claims. Unlike the garbage that comes out of your face.

    DyeF9,

    Indeed you did but your main sources are from the OFTEN DISHONEST FBI & thus "of questionable veracity", at best.

    As I've said, I TRUST experiences of EXPERCEINCED combat soldiers, who have actually FOUGHT an armed enemy with handguns "up close & personal", above any THEORY.
    (I'd bet that less than 5% of FBI agents have EVER been a real gunfight.)
    Otoh, many GIs that I served with OCONUS were IN actual gunfights at least once a week & some few every day.
    (When we were "way down there", our BN's "NIGHT PATROL" was in shoot-outs with the terrorists for 98 straight nights.= I lost a bet that "shooting incidents" would exceed 100 nights in a row.)

    yours, satx
     
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    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    The 9x19mm is DEFINITELY an INFERIOR STOPPER when Ball ammo is compared to Ball ammo from the GM in .45ACP.
    (Because of international agreements, FMJ is ALL that military personnel may carry "on the job".)

    ADDENDA: YES, I've held/fired a double-stack .45 on the range. My hands aren't large enough to shoot it well, so I've never owned one.

    Further, during the "Interwar era" & when we still had troops in the Philippines fighting the Moro, the 9x19mm and/or .38ACP (The USN had some Colt's GM in .38ACP but NOT in .38 Super.) was found to NOT STOP those fanatic native warriors, while the standard 230 grain FMJ .45ACP would "put them down for the count" & frequently GYD right then/there.

    yours, satx


    The US is not required to carry FMJ's.

    We did not sign the Hague accord
     

    zackmars

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    Ha! You'll forgive my heresy if I question the conclusions of your "critical thinking" when they are couched in specific assumption. Were all the world as you imagine perhaps it would be so.


    9mm being cheaper, having less recoil, and allowing more capacity is not assumption

    It is fact
     

    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    Fyi, our department did NOT issue Golden Saber to the LEO (FEMALE), who were issued a 9mm handgun. Remington 124 grain JHP "police only" ammo was "issue"- Thus, I don't know anything about the 9mm loading.

    I note that you didn't say how many autopsies that you have attended. - I probably have OBSERVED > 100 such procedures over the years.

    yours, satx


    I adressed your point about autopsies. I reccomend re-reading my post.
     

    satx78247

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    The US is not required to carry FMJ's.

    We did not sign the Hague accord

    zackmars,

    DoD regulations & long "established policy" (back to when The Department of War still existed) REQUIRE only FMJ/Ball ammo, thus there is NO functional difference in the USA signing/not signing the Hague accords.

    yours, satx
     

    satx78247

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    I adressed your point about autopsies. I reccomend re-reading my post.

    zackmars,

    I asked you HOW MANY autopsies that you had attended & SEEN the results of & you did not respond to that query. = EXPERIENCE always TRUMPS theory.

    yours, satx
     

    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    DoD regulations & long "established policy" (back to when The Department of War still existed) REQUIRE only FMJ/Ball ammo, thus there is NO functional difference in the USA signing/not signing the Hague accords.

    yours, satx

    Would love to see evidence of this, because quite a few military units have used JHP ammo OCONUS
     

    satx78247

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    Would love to see evidence of this, because quite a few military units have used JHP ammo OCONUS

    zackmars,

    Get/Read The JAG Corps DA Pam entitled, "The Law of War". -The prohibition is there "in black & white", with the relevant DoD regulation referenced by number.

    yours, satx
     
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