Venture Surplus ad

Fort Worth Officer kills woman in her own home

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • avvidclif

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Aug 30, 2017
    5,794
    96
    Van Zandt County
    The only problem with that is that is was NOT burgulary call. It was a wellness check. There would likely have been more cops if it was a burgulary. No?

    I was responding the comment about it being a burglary call. From all I have read it was put out as an open building call. It's actually immaterial as you don't go prowling around a home at 2:30 in the morning. Hot night, open front door, lights on DUH someone at home.
     

    kozmic

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 9, 2013
    126
    11
    ...What law abiding citizen, legally inside the residence, would not have come to the conclusion that a prowler was sneaking around their house with ill intent! My opinion, based solely on the video/audio is that the officer set himself up to be drawn on by the homeowner, it was not the homeowner who set herself up to be shot by an officer and thus the officer set himself up to shoot someone he never should have shot because she likely believed he was a prowler.
    This. FTW
     

    leVieux

    TSRA/NRA Life Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Wait a minute.... didn’t the 8 year old say the she had a gun? If I had my gun and was looking out the window hearing sounds I’d have it at the ready.. what was the cop to to do with a gun pointing at him? If my facts are correct, this is not murder just a horrible accident.

    I hope that most of us here don't want to shoot a police officer. Or get shot ourselves. But lady in her own home holding a gun is not any call to shoot ANYONE !
    leVieux
     

    jrbfishn

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Aug 9, 2013
    28,316
    96
    south of killeen
    A lot of fail from dispatch on. There should be more than one person being held accountable in the outcome.

    As much as I hate to say it, Glenn B has a pretty good assessment of it.

    Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     

    innominate

    Asian Cajun
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 3, 2010
    2,047
    96
    Austin
    Not to belittle the kid, but eyewitness testimony is usually not a reliable or accurate recounting of the events that occurred, so I have a hard time believing what an 8 year old said happened at 2:30 in the morning is an accurate representation of what actually happened.

    Let’s see a transcript of what was really said, instead of what’s been released or leaked to a media outlet.

    Additionally, based on the various angles at play, the firearm may not have been visible from the outside at all.
    My niece did a study on eye witness testimony at UT. I can't believe it is still allowed as reliable testimony in court. I could understand, to some extent, if the parties all know each other.

    That being said. I did identify someone of another race in a line up a couple weeks after he tried to make off with my wallet at SXSW a few years ago.
     

    GMA8877

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 12, 2019
    81
    11
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Who wouldn't freak out if all the sudden someone was shining a light into their house?

    What reaction is acceptable?
    EXACTLY!!! She apparently thought someone was trying to break in and picked up her gun out of a drawer according to her nephew in an obvious (to us after the fact of course) attempt to protect her nephew, herself and her home and was shot for it. If some said put your hands in the air (or whatever) without stating they were police first who wouldn't hesitate.
     

    majormadmax

    Úlfhéðnar
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 27, 2009
    15,841
    96
    San Antonio!
    So someone shining a flashlight into your house is cause to use lethal force against them?

    So officers investigating suspicious circumstances at night are not allowed to walk around a house before entering it?

    There are definitely strong opinions on this incident, but let's look at the facts from an unbiased stance...

    First, yes the victim has a 100% right to defend herself and others from a threat; but does that mean she can justifiably shoot someone outside her home simply because they have a flashlight?

    Yes, the officer has every right to defend himself against an armed threat; but was seeing someone in a lighted home that appeared to be the owner--even with a handgun--a legitimate threat?

    As I've stated, I think the officer acted prematurely and I can see where his training could be to blame given how academies train to the worst-case scenario. I believe he and his partner's actions in searching the perimeter of the house first to be logical. The came upon the scene and found the front door wide open. Now, whether they should have announced themselves or not could be debated, but I can see why they wouldn't.

    I also do not believe the victim did anything wrong, but had she shot the officer instead of the other way around it would have not have been justified either.

    Bottom line, the officer was not nefarious in his intent, but he must be held accountable for his actions. I see this going down the same road as the Amber Guyger case, with the same outcome.
     

    Frank59

    Wheel Gunner
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 14, 2018
    1,897
    96
    San Angelo
    So someone shining a flashlight into your house is cause to use lethal force against them?

    So officers investigating suspicious circumstances at night are not allowed to walk around a house before entering it?

    There are definitely strong opinions on this incident, but let's look at the facts from an unbiased stance...

    First, yes the victim has a 100% right to defend herself and others from a threat; but does that mean she can justifiably shoot someone outside her home simply because they have a flashlight?

    Yes, the officer has every right to defend himself against an armed threat; but was seeing someone in a lighted home that appeared to be the owner--even with a handgun--a legitimate threat?

    As I've stated, I think the officer acted prematurely and I can see where his training could be to blame given how academies train to the worst-case scenario. I believe he and his partner's actions in searching the perimeter of the house first to be logical. The came upon the scene and found the front door wide open. Now, whether they should have announced themselves or not could be debated, but I can see why they wouldn't.

    I also do not believe the victim did anything wrong, but had she shot the officer instead of the other way around it would have not have been justified either.

    Bottom line, the officer was not nefarious in his intent, but he must be held accountable for his actions. I see this going down the same road as the Amber Guyger case, with the same outcome.
    Excellent post! I'm sure the lynch mob will take exception.
     

    mongoose

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 10, 2012
    1,289
    96
    nm
    Try reading the post again!

    She did not shoot anyone so there is nothing to justify. The Officer needed to ID himself, otherwise he is fair game if he slinks around my home shining a flashlight into and around my home. We have had too many examples of BGs impersonating a LEO and wearing a uniform. She showed more restraint than a trained Officer. She essentially was SWATed by her neighbor.
     

    mongoose

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 10, 2012
    1,289
    96
    nm
    Uh, nope. The neighbor requested a welfare check through a non-emergency line.

    Ah, nope. A welfare check was never mentioned. An open door report was made.
     

    kozmic

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 9, 2013
    126
    11
    So someone shining a flashlight into your house is cause to use lethal force against them?
    First... please show me where "lethal force" was used by the victim? Second, by the incidents as provided thus far publicly, by everything I have read thus far, she sure as shit had a right to be concerned for her safety and a right to use lethal force, if necessary, to protect against what any reasonable person would have perceived as "criminal mischief" during the nighttime hours.

    So officers investigating suspicious circumstances at night are not allowed to walk around a house before entering it?
    Sure they are, if they are actually investigating "suspicious circumstances" that warrant such type of investigation. Again, by any reasonable measure, with facts presented thus far, an open door (esp if there was a closed screen door in its place, on a cool Texas night (especially at a home with folks who are actually still up/moving around their own home), isn't one of those scenarios. Sorry... "staying up late to play video games at your own home" isn't a crime of any sort... I don't give a rats arss that a "concerned neighbor" called into the "non emergency" line...

    There are definitely strong opinions on this incident, but let's look at the facts from an unbiased stance...

    First, yes the victim has a 100% right to defend herself and others from a threat; but does that mean she can justifiably shoot someone outside her home simply because they have a flashlight?
    I see no reported shots fired by the victim, here... you're conflating a what if with what actually happened. Point moot.

    Yes, the officer has every right to defend himself against an armed threat; but was seeing someone in a lighted home that appeared to be the owner--even with a handgun--a legitimate threat?
    That's the problem here, you're conflating again... I don't see any "legitimate threat", and if the officer perceived one, he created the scenario himself, and that is not a defendable position for ending someone else's life. If you don't see this, I am not sure anyone can help you understand.

    As I've stated, I think the officer acted prematurely and I can see where his training could be to blame given how academies train to the worst-case scenario. I believe he and his partner's actions in searching the perimeter of the house first to be logical. The came upon the scene and found the front door wide open. Now, whether they should have announced themselves or not could be debated, but I can see why they wouldn't.
    I agree 100% that the officer act prematurely... the rest of this? I disagree, 100%.

    I also do not believe the victim did anything wrong, but had she shot the officer instead of the other way around it would have not have been justified either.
    You're just wobbling here, if the officer is claiming that, he shot her based on a perceived threat of lethal force, then she either was in her rights to use lethal force to defend herself from her own perception of a threat or she wasn't - remember the circumstance, she's in her own home, with a child, at 2-3am, and "someone" is creeping around her home with a flashlight, and whispering without announcing they are there, simply (supposedly?) for a welfare or open door "check". You believe she wasn't within her rights, others believe she was, let's see how the court feels.

    Bottom line, the officer was not nefarious in his intent, but he must be held accountable for his actions. I see this going down the same road as the Amber Guyger case, with the same outcome.
    This is probably the smartest line of your entire post!
     
    Last edited:

    toddnjoyce

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Sep 27, 2017
    19,285
    96
    Boerne
    Ah, nope. A welfare check was never mentioned. An open door report was made.

    “Officers responded to the call from witness James Smith, who said he used a non-emergency number and not 911 for the call because it was only a welfare check and not an emergency.”

    https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/1...th-Home-Early-Saturday-Morning-562919781.html

    Until a transcript of the call, or better yet a recording of the call is released, I guess there’s going to be disagreement on what was said on the phone call, what was recorded in the dispatch system, and what was reported to the responding officers.

    However, once that call was made is where the shit comes off the rails....what/how people expect LEOs to respond may not be what actually occurs, because most people have zero knowledge of LE processes and tactics, nor should they be expected to.
     
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

    Support

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    116,120
    Messages
    2,953,363
    Members
    34,941
    Latest member
    Irowland1994
    Top Bottom