Texas SOT

In light of these Walmart incidents...

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  • easy rider

    Summer Slacker
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    Jun 10, 2015
    31,489
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    Odessa, Tx
    I will do what I think is the right thing to do in a given situation. And I hope to do for others caught in danger what I would want someone to do for me if I was caught in danger.
    Certainly. Just try not to make yourself another statistic.
     

    J-gunner

    Member
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    2   0   0
    May 7, 2019
    132
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    Northlake, TX
    Statistically, I am 1000% (+/-, an obvious exaggeration) more likely to have to use my firearm for self defense in a one-on-one, personal encounter than in a dept store against a mass murderer with an AK and body armor. Rather than preparing ourselves for unlikely scenarios (not that we shouldn't be prepared for, or surprised by, just about anything these days), we CCers would serve ourselves much better simply by being generally more aware of our surroundings, boning up on local and state level laws and keeping our tools on us at all times.
     

    toddbeck

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    Jan 25, 2012
    7
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    Coppell
    My CHL instructor said, "I am willing to die or go to jail or be sued for everything I'll ever earn in order to save my life or that of my family. I am not willing to die or go to jail or be sued for your life. But each of you can make your own choice whether to shoot."

    It was important that he included in that "be sued for everything I'll ever earn." You can be completely no-billed by the District Attorney--cleared of ANY crime, totally justified--and yet be sued for the next 30 years by somebody in civil court, with attorney costs piling up. Something to consider before choosing to shoot.
     

    Mowingmaniac 24/7

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    Nov 7, 2015
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    todd,

    Sorry, you're making too much sense.....

    There's a contingent here who fancy themselves 'free range saviors' and the kind of truth your telling isn't for them and we get chastised by them if we don't agree with what you just posted - which btw, I agree with.
     

    BillFairbanks

    Well-Known
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    0   0   0
    May 8, 2017
    1,626
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    Johnson County, TX
    My CHL instructor said, "I am willing to die or go to jail or be sued for everything I'll ever earn in order to save my life or that of my family. I am not willing to die or go to jail or be sued for your life. But each of you can make your own choice whether to shoot."

    It was important that he included in that "be sued for everything I'll ever earn." You can be completely no-billed by the District Attorney--cleared of ANY crime, totally justified--and yet be sued for the next 30 years by somebody in civil court, with attorney costs piling up. Something to consider before choosing to shoot.

    Sure.

    However, if you want protection from lawsuits, you could also consider an umbrella liability policy. It’s not expensive at all.

    The person who shot my wife didn’t lose a dime of his own money or face any legal repercussions at all.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    oldag

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    Feb 19, 2015
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    todd,

    Sorry, you're making too much sense.....

    There's a contingent here who fancy themselves 'free range saviors' and the kind of truth your telling isn't for them and we get chastised by them if we don't agree with what you just posted - which btw, I agree with.
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    SA_Steve

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    1   0   0
    Oct 1, 2014
    1,544
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    San Antonio, Texas USA
    You are pretty lawsuit proof in TX, really only your loose cash and extra real estate is at risk. Retirement funds, house, and car are easy to protect. That said I carry the umbrella but it requires an additional kicker on your car and house insurance before they will sell it to you.

    And I've not scoured the 20 pages of fine print in the policy, and the several new pages they send each year, that tell what is excluded.
     

    Sublime

    Active Member
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    Mar 24, 2019
    768
    76
    Dallas
    My CHL instructor said, "I am willing to die or go to jail or be sued for everything I'll ever earn in order to save my life or that of my family. I am not willing to die or go to jail or be sued for your life. But each of you can make your own choice whether to shoot."

    It was important that he included in that "be sued for everything I'll ever earn." You can be completely no-billed by the District Attorney--cleared of ANY crime, totally justified--and yet be sued for the next 30 years by somebody in civil court, with attorney costs piling up. Something to consider before choosing to shoot.
    Honestly, if caught in a AS situation, you are most likely NOT gonna think of someone suing you. Is the chance of getting sued worth NOT helping someone in need if you could do so? For many here, it seems like it is.

    Speaking of getting sued, did you know that is doubly worse for LE? You can be charged on state and federal criminal charges and be sued civily in state court and federal court yet they respond to help the helpless anyway.

    Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
     

    cherok2e

    Active Member
    BANNED!!!
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    Feb 22, 2018
    567
    26
    Friona, TX
    See there you go again. Dick in mouth.

    I said nothing negative about people who sacrafice for others so I suggest some auto fornication to help sooth your butt hurt.

    Context is important. Like the context of the discussion as in a Ccw holder and how they respond. So no it isnt the same as a LEO or Military member. Peroid. Weather you act is not black and white. Are you going to put your baby down to run to the gunfire? Are you going to leave your family to run to the gunfire? No not unless you're an idiot.

    Again no one but you said people think negatively about those who die so others may live. YOU AND YOU ALONE. Considering the consequences of ones actions is how rational people make decisions. The legacy of those who die for others is always with us. They are the best of us but that still wont take the place of you in their lives. Your legacy wont feed and clothes them. It may comfort them later.

    Context matters. You are off on a different subject entirely.


    Why does the language always seem to become tawdry as the posts go on and the intensity increases. It affects the spelling as well as the thinking. No one knows what will happen until it happens and each must think ahead about what they would do and prepare the best you can.

    Read the codes provided by the LTC and make decisions based on what is before you. Our lives today are influenced with to many statistics today and those don't mean anything in the end. Have a 'what if plan' and stay alert and keep your family safe.
     

    bowserb

    Active Member
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    Aug 12, 2011
    326
    11
    Houston, TX USA
    My CHL instructor said, "I am willing to die or go to jail or be sued for everything I'll ever earn in order to save my life or that of my family. I am not willing to die or go to jail or be sued for your life. But each of you can make your own choice whether to shoot."
    I think this CHL instructor summed up nicely what make sense. It also matches what Tom Gresham has said. Tom also points out that all those other adults had the same opportunity as you to get a gun and a license to carry. They chose not to. Indeed, some of them may even be zealously anti-gun and think your guns should be taken away by the government.
     

    A & P

    Active Member
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    Aug 4, 2014
    367
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    Tomball/Magnolia
    Without making 10 posts in a row, I'll try to do all my responses in one post from what I read...

    In the back of the store...? Someone said it too, since we're fantasizing here, why not break into the rifle cabinet (that doesn't have ARs anymore), get you a good scoped gun and a box of ammo. Then you can stand all the way across the store where he's not looking and snipe him with one good shot (assuming the scope is zeroed, of course). Since you're already in the hunting department, you could even don some camo off the shelf and blend in with the lawn and garden section.

    As for laws, I'm no lawyer but as most people said, it's not a CHL question but rather a Penal Code question I'm guessing. What most didn't say is that while there's no duty to retreat, the use of force "allowance" also allows for protecting a third person. You can use the same amount of force to protect someone else as you would yourself. So I think you're well covered by using deadly force to stop deadly force even if it wasn't specifically targeting you.

    Getting behind the guy? Hmm. If he's at the front, are you going to walk out the other door and around to the other entrance? Have your eyes readjust to the lighting. Reorient to the threat that has likely moved from your last known position? Tough.

    Multiple shooters. There is actually a sad case where a CHL got the drop on a shooter (in a Walmart, no less, IIRC) just to get ambushed by his accomplice (a female, again, IIRC) who he didn't know was there. Very tough! Fog and friction kinda thing.

    Cover v concealment. Walmart shelving isn't really cover. But, good news, most people tend to shoot at what they see. Out of sight, out of mind. He's not wildly spraying. Now, stray shots? Ya, you're not in a covered position unless you're in the sandbag or cement aisle. But if he doesn't see you, he's likely not aiming at the shelving that he thinks you're hiding behind. Remember, movie couches and car doors are bulletproof. Walmart shelving isn't. However, if you shot from a concealed position and he's shooting too, with screaming and chaos, he likely wouldn't know where the initial shots are coming from. So there IS some advantage.

    Distance to engage. There was a shooter stopped by a handgun at about 70 yards. It can be done. I think the good guy was a marine. Details are very fuzzy, but they're online. I routinely put effective rounds on target at 40 but that's on a range where the steel isn't shooting back. 15 yards are almost all 10 ring (B27 target), but again, the target isn't moving or shooting back. So we do need a reality check on the plan vs reality. Moving, adrenaline, nerves, distance,... There are plenty of vids of "highly trained" cops dumping their entire mags from 3 to 10 yards in a traffic stop and nobody gets hit. That's reality.

    Fight or flight. It's interesting that so many on this forum say "Every man for themselves" or "just me and mine get protected". Many people on here are former military or LE. They were wired to risk their life to protect strangers. Sure, it was their job. But they took the job knowing that. Some of us have a protector mentality and others don't. If you saw a kid in a street and a car racing up on it, are you going to run out and snatch the kid to save them or are you going to call to the kid and say "Son!? Is that you??" before you react? I jumped into an intersection to help a little old black woman cross the street. She started, the light turned green, and I could see the a-holes getting ready go despite her being in the cross walk. I stepped in front of the cars to help her across. No tip. No relationship. Just a thank you, sir. And that was it. Some of us are wired to help strangers and some aren't. But I'd think the Mil/LE segment on this board would be more wired to run toward danger if they could stop it or help, instinctively. Ever stopped to help a stranger change a tire? Ever offered your seat to a pregnant woman who wasn't your wife? Similar mentalities. Or maybe I just don't value my life that much. And then there are those of us with a hero complex. It's not about helping but about wanting to be known as a hero...and that's a whole different thing maybe.

    Cops shoot good guys. Whatever. That's such a tired argument of the left for taking all guns away. I expect more from the members on this board. If a cop can't tell a good guy from a bad guy, then he needs more training. I have a higher opinion of the cops that, while some do react hastily, others will actually take that split second to realize that my handgun is aimed at the guy with the rifle and tactical gear. Or that my pistol is in the low ready and I'm crouched behind the chips and not shooting anyone. Even the dickhead who shot up El Paso was taken alive...and that mfer deserved to get shot just on principle. So I think the cops might NOT shoot the good guy most of the time. And if the choices are "save everyone in Walmart and risk getting shot by the cops in 20 minutes when they show up" or "let everyone die including myself when I could have done something because I don't want to get shot in 20 minutes when the cops show up", I'll risk the former. But I'm a Rambo Maverick type, of course.

    Good guys shoot each other. Same tired argument of the left. Granted, many or most CHLs (I know, it's LTC now) don't have the shoot/no-shoot training a cop might and aren't wired the same so technically it's a higher risk. But, two good things: 1. Most CHLs can't shoot for shit anyway so they'll probably miss you, and 2. Most are going to be scared enough that maybe that extra second of hesitation will help them not shoot. Most people DO NOT want to shoot someone and many people miss because their subconscious will not let them shoot a person. They know they're not supposed to aim a gun at someone and they just cannot do it. They're not trained to stop threats. Hell, some ranges won't even let you shoot a silhouette! I'm no sniper but I've seen enough interviews where some snipers say, when asked how you can kill a guy like that, they have to focus on the reticle to take the human factor out of it. So there's that too.
     
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