Guns International

Private sale in Texas..

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,542
    96
    Dallas
    I always thought that under federal law the seller had to know who they were selling to, i.e. see ID, if they did not "know" the buyer, but no requirement to document. is this incorrect?

    An ID doesn’t indicate if a person is prohibited.

    And ID’s are issued by states, not the feds.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Guns International
     

    c.tiberius

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Apr 28, 2015
    455
    76
    My friend just asked me to go with him Friday to meet a guy that is trading a lever 30-30 remlin for a guitar....:)) Should we print out a bill of trade?


    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     

    Texasgordo

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    May 15, 2008
    62,768
    96
    Gonzales, Texas
    My friend just asked me to go with him Friday to meet a guy that is trading a lever 30-30 remlin for a guitar....:)) Should we print out a bill of trade?


    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
    Just trade what y'all agreed to and shake hands. Nothing else is neccessary.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    c.tiberius

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Apr 28, 2015
    455
    76
    Just trade what y'all agreed to and shake hands. Nothing else is neccessary.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    This trade shows actually how both items need to be seen as "equal" there's nothing wrong with either of the items. One needs a rifle, one needs a guitar. Fair trade and part ways. I would still respect the wish of a seller to (just to) see my id if I can't pass the deal because it doesn't bother me that much. Just because you know my name doesn't help you much. For sure I'll change my opinion in the future as I'm young and without to much experience in the aspect of selling/trading firearms .

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
     

    Nagorg

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 13, 2018
    59
    11
    Dallas, TX
    A bill of sale and at least looking at an ID still seems reasonable IMO. And there is even a (closed) post on this forum suggesting the same thing.

    https://www.texasguntalk.com/thread...face-to-face-transfer-and-other-options.7685/

    Also several examples of what a bill of sale might look like such as this one where the buyer basically volunteers information showing that there is no reason you shouldn't sell to them.

    Collecting PII as a concern?? Do you personally need to comply with any regulatory compliance laws? Most of those really just call out how you need to protect the info anyway and we arent talking about SS numbers or bank account info; pretty much just name and address. Have you ever had your DL# written on a personal check? How is that any different?

    Anyway, I agree its not a requirement and its obviously objected to by several on this thread. But I still think its not a bad idea.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    I always thought that under federal law the seller had to know who they were selling to, i.e. see ID, if they did not "know" the buyer, but no requirement to document. is this incorrect?

    Yes that is incorrect. Only an FFL has to see ID for the 4473.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    A bill of sale and at least looking at an ID still seems reasonable IMO. And there is even a (closed) post on this forum suggesting the same thing.

    https://www.texasguntalk.com/thread...face-to-face-transfer-and-other-options.7685/

    Also several examples of what a bill of sale might look like such as this one where the buyer basically volunteers information showing that there is no reason you shouldn't sell to them.

    Collecting PII as a concern?? Do you personally need to comply with any regulatory compliance laws? Most of those really just call out how you need to protect the info anyway and we arent talking about SS numbers or bank account info; pretty much just name and address. Have you ever had your DL# written on a personal check? How is that any different?

    Anyway, I agree its not a requirement and its obviously objected to by several on this thread. But I still think its not a bad idea.


    It is a horrible idea and we have documented why on this forum with many folks who got imprisoned for keeping records. Nobody yet has been able to provide and example where a BOS seller did good.
     

    Nagorg

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 13, 2018
    59
    11
    Dallas, TX
    The example cited in this post seems to do more than suggest a BOS is useless. It seems to cast a dark shadow on private gun sales in general unless brokered via an FFL holder.

    Showing where a BOS has helped may be difficult but citing several examples of it being a good idea is easy.

    http://regularguyguns.com/2017/08/31/Buying-A-Gun-In-A-Private-Sale/

    And "checking ID" seems to go a long way to help make sure of at least a few qualifiers for legal transfer such as state residence and age.

    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/private-sales-in-texas/
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Southpaw

    Forum BSer
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Mar 30, 2009
    17,862
    96
    Guadalupe Co.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

    As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

    Courts have identified several factors relevant to determining on which side of that line your activities may fall, including: whether you represent yourself as a dealer in firearms; whether you are repetitively buying and selling firearms; the circumstances under which you are selling firearms; and whether you are looking to make a profit. Note that while quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors were also present.




    The rules are vague for a reason and I'd be more concerned with a bunch of BOS ending up as evidence.
     

    Nagorg

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 13, 2018
    59
    11
    Dallas, TX
    Yeah, if it were a regular thing then I can see how you might should consider an FFL.

    But more to the point from the ATF:
    https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download

    Again, stated as not a requirement but a suggested "best practice" to at least check ID.
    "If you decide not to utilize the services of an FFL, examine the purchaser’s identification document to confirm that the person is a resident of your State"
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    Showing where a BOS has helped may be difficult but citing several examples of it being a good idea is easy.

    https://www.uslawshield.com/stolen-gun-documentation-texas/

    http://regularguyguns.com/2017/08/31/Buying-A-Gun-In-A-Private-Sale/

    And "checking ID" seems to go a long way to help make sure of at least a few qualifiers for legal transfer such as state residence and age.

    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/private-sales-in-texas/

    The problem with all those sites is they fail to look at the negatives, and thus cannot weigh the negatives against the positives, thus cannoty make a good decision on whether it is a good idea or not.

    The fact is the BOS has no upside for either buyer or seller, just downside.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    Again, stated as not a requirement but a suggested "best practice" to at least check ID.
    "If you decide not to utilize the services of an FFL, examine the purchaser’s identification document to confirm that the person is a resident of your State"

    Why is that a "best practice"? They do not give a reason, cause there is no reason. Checking one item when there are about a dozen DQ'ers makes no sense, especially when you are NOT legally required to check anything.

    The "best practice" is to follow the law to the letter, no more, no less.
     

    Shady

    The One And Only
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 24, 2013
    4,656
    96
    Or listen your your attorney Never say anything to a cop that you do not have to absolutely say.

    Same with a bill of sale. Its more info and can only be used against you and cant help save your ass.
     

    toddnjoyce

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Sep 27, 2017
    19,285
    96
    Boerne
    The example cited in this post....seems to do more than suggest a BOS is useless. It seems to cast a dark shadow on private gun sales in general unless brokered via an FFL holder.

    Since you’re new here, I’ll make this really easy for you. You’re not going to change anyone’s personal opinion on a Bill of Sale in a private transaction.

    BOS, as a topic, is hotly contested. For private sales, it is not required in the state of Texas or by the federal government.

    If you elect to require a BOS in your transactions, state it up front in the ad. If you neglect to bring it up until a member has drive several hundred miles across the state (yes, it does happen) to complete the sale, that fact will be openly discussed.
     

    Nagorg

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 13, 2018
    59
    11
    Dallas, TX
    Since you’re new here, I’ll make this really easy for you. You’re not going to change anyone’s personal opinion on a Bill of Sale in a private transaction.

    BOS, as a topic, is hotly contested. For private sales, it is not required in the state of Texas or by the federal government.

    I'm not attempting to change anyone's personal opinion. I'm only stating mine.

    Yes, this does look like a hotly contested topic and I had no idea it would be honestly. Really not trying to make any enemies, only engaging in conversation.

    I do concur that its not required by Texas or Federal law; I've stated that many times. Someone stated how its best to only provide required info in a legal scenario and I'll have to agree with that statement.

    So, on that line I have to reconsider what I thought has been a good practice in the past. I've only done that (sold/purchased a firearm privately) a couple of times over ~20 years so it's not something that happens often.

    Good conversations...
     
    Top Bottom