Official Cool Picture - Video Thread.

Microburst storm in Arizona

8.8cm Panzergranate and Panzergranate 39 armor piercing shell cutaways

orbitup said:

8.8cm Panzergranate and Panzergranate 39 armor piercing shell cutaways

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I see layers....how does this round work?

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Shotgun Jeremy said:

I see layers....how does this round work?

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This isn't the detailed explanation thread, it's the cool picture thread.

On the left is the first *Panzergranate* Armor Piercing Capped Ballistic Cap shell designed for the [Flak 18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_Flak_18/36/37/41), while on the right we can see the improved [*Panzergranate 39*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzergranate_39). While primarily an anti-aircraft weapon, the Flak 18 was designed from the outset to be able to fulfill a dual role attacking ground targets, with the barrel being capable of depression 3 degrees below the horizontal and a telescopic sight for aiming. Anti-aircraft guns are required to have a high velocity in order to be effective, and this translates into good performance against armor, providing an appropriate shell was supplied, and the *Panzergranate* was that shell.

From top to bottom on both shells we can see first the Ballistic Cap, the hollow area of the nose that gives the shell its pointed shape which made it more streamlined while flying through the air, losing less velocity per distance traveled downrange. This increases impact velocity and therefore penetration, as well as giving a flatter trajectory making it easier to aim. The shell left the muzzle at just over 800 meters per second and at 2000 meters was still traveling at 635 meters per second, and one would be required to elevate the barrel just one degree to compensate for projectile drop.

Next is the penetrating cap, made of softer metal attached to the main shell body that is made of a harder steel. Hard steel is required to penetrate armor, however this almost invariable makes the metal brittle and prone to shattering when striking armor at high velocity. The penetrating cap transferred energy from the tip of the shell to the sides of the projectile, thereby helping to reduce shattering. In addition, the cap appeared to improve penetration of sloped armor by deforming, spreading and “sticking” to the armor on impact and thereby reducing the tendency of the shell to deflect at an angle. The effect is animated in an exaggerated fashion [here](https://i.imgur.com/tepZG91.gifv). We can also see a [more detailed simulation](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestroyedT...ssectional_and_external_simulation_of_a_75cm/) of the performance of the cap.

The main part of the shell is the hard steel core responsible for penetration and nestled in its center is the bursting charge. This was relatively tiny, by necessity because too big a charge would have weakened the shell and reduced its density, making it less likely to penetrate. This is the principle difference between the first and second versions of the shells, we can see that the cavity in the *Panzergranate 39* is smaller and indeed it holds a smaller charge of high explosive, 64 grams vs 168 grams in the original shell.

In a shell that weighs almost 10 kilograms we have less that 1% of the total weight of explosive in the *Panzergranate 39*. For reference as to how small that HE load is, an [M67 hand grenade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade) contains a total of 180 grams of HE, literally more than twice the amount of explosive in this shell. To compound the ineffectual nature of this charge, the fuzing was also a chancy proposition. We can see the fuze at the base of each shell cavity.

Initially the *BodenZunder fur 8,8cm PanzerGranate* fuze was basically a guess on the part of the designers as to how much time would pass from the time the shell hit the armor to the time it fully penetrated. There are many thicknesses and angles of armor, and different ranges as well that means the shell hits at different velocities and penetrates at different speeds. A shell that penetrates say an M4 Sherman's glacis at 1500 yards would take more time to go through that a shell penetrating the side of the same tank at 200 yards. If you detonate the shell too early, while it is penetrating, then it will likely fail to penetrate, so designers would err on the side of caution with longer fuzes. This gives us many cases of shells [zipping right through](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestroyedTanks/comments/44uccc/entry_and_exit_holes_in_the_sides_of_a/) a tank [without detonating](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestroyedT...an_mark_vc_firefly_75mm_entry_and_exit_holes/). Even with correct timing, we're assuming that the extreme forces on the shell as it penetrates haven't [popped the fuze](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPo...n_artillery_shell_embedded_in_the_armor_of_a/) out of the base before it could detonate the shell.

The *Panzergranate 39* *BdZ.5127* fuze was a little smarter, it was spring-loaded and locked in place until armor was struck, at which point it would be unlocked. The deceleration forces would however keep it from moving, until the shell stopped decelerating - ie it was clear of the armor - at which point it was free to strike the primer and detonate the shell. The fuze would not be activated unless the shell encountered at least 30mm of vertical armor, so if striking a lightly armored vehicle the shell was still liable to go through without detonating. The Germans maintained a belief that without an explosive filling, a shell would simply go through armor without doing sufficient damage but in practice [this was not the case](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestroyedT..._entry_and_exit_holes_in_the_turret_of_a_3rd/). Had they chosen to go with solid steel shells like most Allied projectiles, they would have been easier to manufacture, stronger and denser and therefore would have performed better against armor, and the effect on the targets would likely not have been reduced.

At the very bottom of the shell is the tracer element which allowed the tank gunner to track the progress of the shell as it speeds towards its target. We can see the tracer in [this clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestroyedT...8cm_flak_36_used_in_the_ground_role_in_north/) showing the 8.8cm Flak targeting a tank in North Africa at long range, a theater where the piece excelled in this role - with the terrain mostly flat and with general good visibility, it was able to target Allied vehicles at ranges beyond which they could respond.


Cooy/pasta for your enjoyment.

Looks like birds eye view of the toes of the Wicked Witch of the East (except for the color).

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Texasgordo said:

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I been to 3 state fairs and 2 goat ropings .
I ain't never seen nothing like that.

Dagum!

Texasgordo said:

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Remind me never to get a plane ride from that guy.

Such a wonderful aircraft. It's a shame the military brass want to scrap it so badly.
I remember staying on a base with the boy scouts years ago because it was cheap on the way to summer camp. We got a small tour of an A-10 by the pilot. I remember how massive the muzzle of that thing was standing in front of it.

US Army troops crouch behind the bulwarks of a landing craft as it approaches Omaha Beach in Normandy in France on June 6, 1944.