Carrying handgun in car without CCL

[Charlie]

How about this one:

Jones gets BOS and keeps them safe. One day ATF shows up at Jones door, as one of the guns he sold made its way to Mexico and was used in a murder. ATF asks for any records he may have of who he sold to. Jones thinks, I knew those idiots on the Internet were wrong when they told me not to keep records, I just protected myself! Jones quickly prints out names of buyers as he also keeps them in Excel encrypted on his computer, for inventory purposes.

Later ATF searches his home finds original BOS he did not provide. Charges him with lying to Federal Agents.

Sound ridiculous? Happened to FBI Agent John Shipley, which is now serving time in a Federal Prison.

How about another real life example?

Jones sells gun to Smith a gun show. They exchange BOS. Later Smith is caught with gun, and is found to be illegal alien, even though he had Texas DL. Jones makes deal with ATF and tell ATF Jones is the supplier of guns to illegals. Jones goes to Jail, Smith gets immunity.


Never keep records. Never.

BINGO!!! We have a winner! Excellent post!

 

[Renegade]

How about this for a worst case scenario:

Jones insists on a BOS because the internet said it is a good idea. Later, scumbags break into Jones' home and steal his guns and his stack of BOS. Then, the scumbags burglarize all the people who gave Jones their info because it "couldn't hurt".

As an FFL my biggest fear is not my guns getting stolen. Guns are insured.

My biggest fear is my boxes of 4473 dating back 20 years getting stolen. All are full of detailed personal info. I wish I could destroy them, but that is illegal. I keep them in a HD safe, but nothing is truly "safe".

And since they are just "paper", i doubt much effort would be made to recover them, at least not the same effort as if guns were stolen.

 

[J. Fred]

Y'all sure give excellent reasons for NO BOS.

I never have and I for sure never will now.

 

[TheDan]

Talking about the shooting sports and arguing with co-workers about whether it is legal or not to have a gun in your car (presumably on work property) are two very different things.

Arguing is pretty pointless no matter what the subject matter is. For stuff like in the OP, just show them the penal code and let them make up their own minds...

If you can agree to disagree and then move on, you'll find that you can get along with just about anybody. This philosophy does not apply to people who insist on a bill of sale, however

 

[Charlie]

arguing is pretty pointless no matter what the subject matter is. For stuff like in the op, just show them the penal code and let them make up their own minds...

If you can agree to disagree and then move on, you'll find that you can get along with just about anybody. this philosophy does not apply to people who insist on a bill of sale, however

lmfao!!!!

 

[TheDan]

Right now three of my co-workers are arguing that Glocks are "polymer" not "plastic". The 1911-ophile was bagging on one guy about his plastic pistol, and the third one piped up that it's polymer, not plastic. All this precipitated after a 4th co-worker came by talking about how he just bought a .454

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Right now three of my co-workers are arguing that Glocks are "polymer" not "plastic". The 1911-ophile was bagging on one guy about his plastic pistol, and the third one piped up that it's polymer, not plastic. All this precipitated after a 4th co-worker came by talking about how he just bought a .454

A Casull??

 

[Renegade]

A Casull??

No a Rat

j/k

 

[TheDan]

A Casull??

Well, he wasn't talking about a Chevy

 

[shooterfpga]

Well, he wasn't talking about a Chevy

lmfao, im going to rename all my calibers as engine cu sizes. 45 is now 454, 40 is 408.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Well, he wasn't talking about a Chevy

Well, I said that because of the in your post....I thought maybe he was calling his .45acp a 454 & you thought it was funny, otherwise, why the laughing face?

 

[Younggun]

BOS thing, tired of the argument, you'll know if we do a deal and it will work or it won't.

Discussing guns with co-workers, I have actually gotten a couple of coworkers into shooting by discussing guns. I don't cram it down someones throat but it has made a difference. Getting someone interested in guns in guns is one of the best things you can do for 2A rights, IMO.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Talking about the shooting sports and arguing with co-workers about whether it is legal or not to have a gun in your car (presumably on work property) are two very different things.

Yep. I don't disagree with you. I was just cautioning about going too far with it.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

 

[TheDan]

otherwise, why the laughing face?

I just thought the whole situation was funny. Folks on here worrying about discussing guns in front of co-workers and meanwhile in liberal Austin the Glock and 1911 fans are going at it in the workplace as if they were on a gun forum.

 

[kabob]

Well, after saying I've never sold or bought a firearm without a BOS or 4473, I went and sold one of my Sigs today for straight cash and a handshake. I must be one of those unsavory characters I was warning everybody about

 

[Bithabus]

How about this one:

Jones gets BOS and keeps them safe. One day ATF shows up at Jones door, as one of the guns he sold made its way to Mexico and was used in a murder. ATF asks for any records he may have of who he sold to. Jones thinks, I knew those idiots on the Internet were wrong when they told me not to keep records, I just protected myself! Jones quickly prints out names of buyers as he also keeps them in Excel encrypted on his computer, for inventory purposes.

Later ATF searches his home finds original BOS he did not provide. Charges him with lying to Federal Agents.

Sound ridiculous? Happened to FBI Agent John Shipley, who is now serving time in a Federal Prison.

How about another real life example?

Jones sells gun to Smith at gun show. They exchange BOS. Later Smith is caught with gun, and is found to be illegal alien, even though he had Texas DL. Smith makes deal with ATF and tells ATF Jones is the supplier of guns to illegals. Jones goes to Jail, Smith gets immunity.


Never keep records. Never.


ETA - just remembered another-

Jones gets BOS and keeps them safe. One day ATF shows up at Jones door, as one of the guns he sold was recovered at a crime scene. ATF asks for any records he may have of who he sold to. Jones thinks, I knew those idiots on the Internet were wrong when they told me not to keep records, I just protected myself! Jones quickly gives ALL of his receipts, BOS, etc, to ATF, to help in investigation, after all, Jones "has nothing to hide, and did nothing wrong".

ATF decides Jones buys/sells too many guns, and charges him with Firearms Dealing without a License. Jones is now in Federal Prison.

ETA2:

fixed some name reference errors.

Excellent.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

If I'm not mistaken, everyone at my job except for the boss has a gun and shoots at least semi-regularly.
In that aspect, considering that I work in Austin, I think I'm pretty freakin' lucky!

 

[FoxHound]

Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems quite a bit of you are afraid that a bill of sale can be used to incriminate you in a crime.

What I don't understand is, if the sale of the weapon was 100% legal at the time, how can the seller be charged if the buyer decides to later on commit a crime with said weapon?

I'd imagine keeping records is better than not since it could clear you of any wrongdoing (as long as you're doing legal sales)

Or am I missing the point here?

(also just to comment on original subject... Castle Doctrine. The end )

 

[txinvestigator]

Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems quite a bit of you are afraid that a bill of sale can be used to incriminate you in a crime.

What I don't understand is, if the sale of the weapon was 100% legal at the time, how can the seller be charged if the buyer decides to later on commit a crime with said weapon?

I'd imagine keeping records is better than not since it could clear you of any wrongdoing (as long as you're doing legal sales)

Or am I missing the point here?

(also just to comment on original subject... Castle Doctrine. The end )

You were soing fine until the part about a BOS clearing you. It does not clear you of anything, and creates defacto registration.