Lynx Defense

When is a Silencer not a Silencer

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  • CyberWolf

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    Food for thought:

    "The item at the center of the case is the muzzle of the SIG MPX carbine. When SIG submitted it to the ATF for classification, the company described it as having a 9.5-inch muzzle brake welded onto a 6.5-inch barrel.

    But the ATF saw it another way. The agency determined the muzzle to be a “monolithic baffle stack,” or what’s also used as the internal component for a silencer.

    SIG fired back though. After a number of tests, the company proved that the muzzle did not reduce the noise of a gunshot, but actually intensified it. With the new evidence, the ATF re-considered but ultimately maintained its initial classification.

    To ATF’s credit, when SIG introduced the MPX at a trade show in January 2013, company representatives explained that the muzzle could be transformed into a silencer if the user fitted a metal cover over it — of course, a buyer would also need to fulfill certain legal requirements to alter it."
    DK Firearms
     

    Kayt00

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    Any data establishing the above? Don't brakes increase the noise?
    Brakes would, at least to anybody to the left or right of you. But a flash can which is designed to throw everything forward is the question. To the sides would it be as loud compared to using no device at all? If it's not as loud would it be a silencer even though it may be louder to the front of the muzzle but quieter to the sides?
     

    Axxe55

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    Hmmmm? I'd certainly like to see the statute in writing on that deal. I don't think just anything attached to the end of the barrel could be looked at as a suppressor. They sell fake suppressors and I wonder if legally they can be construed as a "suppressor".


    Page 2 goes into detail.

    The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

    If the device reduces the report of the firearm, it’s a suppressor.

    How to test this:

    • Fire the firearm without the device attached, check the volume using a sound level meter.
    • Attach the device, fire the firearm, check the volume again.
    If the volume reduced at all between the first and second firing, the device is a suppressor and requires a tax stamp.

    Granted, I don't claim to be an expert in this area of firearms by any means, but my rule of thumb is to err on the side caution when it comes to legalities concerning firearms.

    A device that just redirects the sound in another direction, but doesn't lower or diminish the sound wouldn't, or shouldn't be considered a suppressor IMO.
     

    kenboyles72

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    There are other factors that determine if a device is a suppressor or not, not just sound levels. I have blast forward compensators on my rifles, which at the shooters ear, does lower the noise level. Blast cans and blast forward compensators do not fall under the definition of a suppressor. While they do somewhat lower the noise level, they do not contain baffles. Even the Krink style compensator, which is basically a single baffle blast device, is not considered a suppressor. The ATF's definition of a suppressor is conflicting and makes no damn sense.
     

    kenboyles72

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    The BATF rules and laws and regulations sometimes get very convoluted and confusing rather quickly.

    An air rifle with a suppressor is legal, without a tax stamp, because it's not attached to a firearm, but if you remove it, put it on a real firearm, it becomes an illegal suppressor!

    Yeah, but I thought that if you did attach a can to an air rifle/pistol, it had to be made to not come off or majority of it, without damaging the barrel or making the air rifle/piston inoperable. So permanently affixed.
     

    kenboyles72

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    OK, a suppressor can or can not be attached permanently to a airgun. If you buy a legal suppressor and permanently attach it to an airgun, it is no longer a suppressor. If it is removable, it is a suppressor, no matter what you put it on. If you cut off a permanently attached suppressor, whether you discard it or keep it, it is suppressor. If you discard it, without the proper procedures, you are in violation of law.
     

    TX oddball

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    I had a "faux" suppressor on my CZ Scorpion Micro, like in this stock photo



    It looked like a Silencerco Osprey, but not as cool since it was fake. Took it off and replaced it with a 3-lug muzzle adapter. The fake can was lame, and I understand the 2nd gen of the Micro eliminated this feature.
     

    Kayt00

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    Ultimately it is up to the ATF to decide whether they think/feel/had a inkling, that it is a silencer or not, and up to you and your lawyer to disprove their claim, at your expense.
    Yeah, I keep going back to the video that was posted somewhere else on this forum I think. Best to leave it alone I guess, but the idea sounded good at first.

     

    Kayt00

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    As it turns out, they do make such a thing. It doesn't match size and weight but I can use it with the QD brake.
     

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