APOD Firearms

Price "Gouging" Rant

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  • Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Could not agree more. Just sold brand new Ruger 9MM rifle and Sig pistol like new for less than I paid. Didn’t care about squeezing a dollar and wanted quick sale. Makes buyer happy too.

    That is entirely your option as a seller to set the price. IF I decided I wanted sell at a way inflated price for my guns or ammo, that is entirely my option as well.
    Hurley's Gold
     

    A & P

    Active Member
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    0   0   0
    Aug 4, 2014
    367
    26
    Tomball/Magnolia
    the people buying up the entire supply and then reselling it are absolutely gouging. They're creating false shortages and then increasing the price. I taught economics, it's what my degree is in (among other things I had 4 majors), and people defending it as capitalism are slimeballs. I've started just muting them. After this is all over I don't want to be associated with pieces of shit like that.

    I'm a free market capitalist, just like most economists, creating false scarcity by buying all of the supply of something and then selling above market value from the scarcity you've created is NOT capitalism. It's actually a lot closer to socialism than free market capitalism.

    On the other hand we have stand up members like @Hoji giving away ammo and @deemus selling for below pre covid market value..

    **** scalpers and gougers, there is a special place in hell for them.
    ...and this is the problem in today's schools.

    You cannot "corner the market" on ammo and stripped lowers. So your "false shortages" isn't relevant. Nobody is creating false scarcity like DeBeers does with diamonds (did you buy your wife an engagement ring anyway?)

    Price fixing requires collusion. Collusion doesn't work with large numbers. As another example, let's say that dealers are pissed off because people come in for free advice and to handle their merchandise just to buy on Buds or PSA to save a buck or two. So the dealers say "I'll fix that! $100 TRANSFERS!!" Now, is he gouging? No. And the customer can just go elsewhere. But then he tells other dealers to all be $100 too.

    The problem then comes when that one dealer working from home without the same overhead or impact cheats a little and does it for $90. Then another for $80. Then it drops back to the threshold of "it's not worthy my time below $25". Collusion, price fixing, corning the market doesn't work in wide scale, broad market settings. In DC there is only ONE FFL and he does charge $100 for transfers because he can. Government imposed monopoly.

    As for ammo, how much do you think is a fair price? If on Gunbroker, and auction place (the epitome of fair markets), ammo is going for $29.99/box (9mm FMJ), then why in the hell would a store sell it to you for less? It's not gouging. It's the market set in an auctionplace by consumers bidding up to the "fair price".

    Imagine you bought a house just 3 years ago for $100k. All of a sudden you're in a hotspot (study the Vegas housing market from about 10 years ago). Today, your neighbors are selling their houses for $400k. Your mortgage is still just $1000/mo. You owe about $90k left on it. A realtor in the area is begging you to list the house and says they can get you $400k for it in a week.

    I come to you, cause we're cool like that, and say "I'll give you $150k for it. Look, bro. I know you paid $100k just 3 years ago. I also know you only owe $90k. This is a good deal." You likely say, "I like you an all, but I can get 400k for it." "**** YOU MAN. You're gouging the shit out of me! We've known each other for, like, 10 months now and you're going to do me like that! I'm going to report your ass."

    Supply and demand. Free markets. As an economics professor, you probably remember the basic S-D curves. Demand has shot up with new gun owners and now the election going poorly. Curve shifts. Supply has been constrained by factory shutdowns, workers getting paid too much to stay home, Remington filing bankruptcy, and manufacturing bottlenecks. Curve shifts. The big problem in ammo is the primer shortage (ask any handloader). Interestingly, and you'll appreciate this, the cost of the goods isn't as important (that's marginal revenue). Of course there are a lot of assumptions about elasticity, etc.

    So DEMAND is WAY UP. SUPPLY is WAY DOWN. Curves shift. Price point goes way up.

    Wholesale primers used to be $0.023 per primer and fairly unlimited quantities. Now, OEM pricing is $0.08 and very limited. Bullets are fairly hard to come by (again, ask any reloader). Powder isn't so bad and brass isn't so bad. Cost of goods go up so prices should go up, but this is really a supply and demand issue. The question of costs comes into marginal revenue and if a dealer can make enough at that price to stay in business. You apparently want him to pay 50% more for his ammo that he can barely get any of, and then sell it to you at last year's price.

    I just paid $850 per 5,000 primers on Gunbroker (x5 auctions). That's about $0.16/primer for something that normally retails for $0.04.

    And if we're giving away bullets, I say everyone gets just one. That way if you don't like how things are going you have a solution. Otherwise, it's the market price.

    Incidentally, who here protested and didn't buy diesel at $5.00/gallon a few years ago. That's cartel related pricing, not free markets like the ammo prices. I bitched about it like everyone else...and then still paid it.

    Damn socialists on this forum... Probably the same people that are okay with bump stock bans because they think they're dumb and magazine restrictions because they don't need that many rounds to kill a deer anyway. Give your ammo away and hug a tree. Or maybe sell it today to all these other suckers who are paying gouging prices and then buy it back cheaper next month. I bet all the people who complained about $15 9mm in June are kicking themselves right now.
     

    A & P

    Active Member
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    Aug 4, 2014
    367
    26
    Tomball/Magnolia
    I knew someone was going to say something without merit.

    Capitalism is NOT just selling for profit, it's much more private ownership of the means of production.

    The reason that I gave the socialist example in another thread is that when the PUBLIC buys all of the production and resells it it is public ownership of the means of production.

    What is your take on two-step distribution? At what point do you say it's not "public ownership of production"?

    Remington buys brass from Olin. They make their own cases.
    Remington buys powder from Hodgdon, who really just labels it from Australia.
    Remington buys lead from somewhere and makes their own bullets.
    Remington presses out the cartridges and packages it as their own.

    I think we all agree Remington made those rounds.

    Remington sells a pallet of their ammo to ABC Distributors.
    ABC breaks up that pallet and sells the cases to various dealers like XYZ for a profit.
    XYZ buys a case and puts it on their shelf for another profit.

    Clearly ABC and XYZ do not produce the goods sold.

    Joe Schmoe buys 5 boxes of ammo from XYZ. He shoots a couple boxes. Then he sees on Gunbroker they're selling for 2x what he paid. He sells them.

    Joe didn't make the ammo.

    Who the hell knew ammo prices were going to shoot up like this!!

    The guy who bought Joe's ammo (and others at the time) for 2x normal price now can flip it for another 2x!!

    ...so, based on your version of capitalism, everybody's a commie but Remington?
     

    Darkpriest667

    Actually Attends
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    9   0   0
    Jan 13, 2017
    4,489
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    Jarrell TX, United States
    What is your take on two-step distribution? At what point do you say it's not "public ownership of production"?

    Remington buys brass from Olin. They make their own cases.
    Remington buys powder from Hodgdon, who really just labels it from Australia.
    Remington buys lead from somewhere and makes their own bullets.
    Remington presses out the cartridges and packages it as their own.

    I think we all agree Remington made those rounds.

    Remington sells a pallet of their ammo to ABC Distributors.
    ABC breaks up that pallet and sells the cases to various dealers like XYZ for a profit.
    XYZ buys a case and puts it on their shelf for another profit.

    Clearly ABC and XYZ do not produce the goods sold.

    Joe Schmoe buys 5 boxes of ammo from XYZ. He shoots a couple boxes. Then he sees on Gunbroker they're selling for 2x what he paid. He sells them.

    Joe didn't make the ammo.

    Who the hell knew ammo prices were going to shoot up like this!!

    The guy who bought Joe's ammo (and others at the time) for 2x normal price now can flip it for another 2x!!

    ...so, based on your version of capitalism, everybody's a commie but Remington?


    That is a very very very very shortsighted and undetailed version.

    It's called reseller law and as someone who is a business owner I'd think you'd know it but obviously you don't. Manufacturers like REMINGTON have a lot of say in who can resell their products, businesses, distributors etc.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/resellers/

    The consumer.. THE CONSUMER is not the producer at any point of that. Everyone else you listed is a producer or a distributor. It's the difference between producer price index and consumer price index. If the consumer is creating a new distribution business by buying all the ammo at academy and selling it then he/she should list themselves as a business and compete with other distributors AND has to abide by the original manufacturers resell obligations.


    Also to your lengthy but shitty post on supply demand curves (I doubt you can draw a LRAS demand schedule or curve) Cartel pricing is exactly the kind of thing we should be against. I certainly am no socialist, but Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman both agree with me when it comes to creating false scarcity by causing shortages and becoming a reseller.

    I'd also bet 1000 dollars you voted Biden just like other gun and armor dealers because they make a shit ton more money during democrat rule.
     

    oldag

    TGT Addict
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    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
    17,425
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    That is a very very very very shortsighted and undetailed version.

    It's called reseller law and as someone who is a business owner I'd think you'd know it but obviously you don't. Manufacturers like REMINGTON have a lot of say in who can resell their products, businesses, distributors etc.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/resellers/

    The consumer.. THE CONSUMER is not the producer at any point of that. Everyone else you listed is a producer or a distributor. It's the difference between producer price index and consumer price index. If the consumer is creating a new distribution business by buying all the ammo at academy and selling it then he/she should list themselves as a business and compete with other distributors AND has to abide by the original manufacturers resell obligations.


    Also to your lengthy but shitty post on supply demand curves (I doubt you can draw a LRAS demand schedule or curve) Cartel pricing is exactly the kind of thing we should be against. I certainly am no socialist, but Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman both agree with me when it comes to creating false scarcity by causing shortages and becoming a reseller.

    I'd also bet 1000 dollars you voted Biden just like other gun and armor dealers because they make a shit ton more money during democrat rule.
    So if you are ok with Remington controlling who can sell their product at the retail level, are you also ok with Remington setting minimum retail prices?
     

    wbblazer90

    Active Member
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    0   0   0
    Nov 18, 2014
    402
    46
    That is a very very very very shortsighted and undetailed version.

    It's called reseller law and as someone who is a business owner I'd think you'd know it but obviously you don't. Manufacturers like REMINGTON have a lot of say in who can resell their products, businesses, distributors etc.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/resellers/

    The consumer.. THE CONSUMER is not the producer at any point of that. Everyone else you listed is a producer or a distributor. It's the difference between producer price index and consumer price index. If the consumer is creating a new distribution business by buying all the ammo at academy and selling it then he/she should list themselves as a business and compete with other distributors AND has to abide by the original manufacturers resell obligations.


    Also to your lengthy but shitty post on supply demand curves (I doubt you can draw a LRAS demand schedule or curve) Cartel pricing is exactly the kind of thing we should be against. I certainly am no socialist, but Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman both agree with me when it comes to creating false scarcity by causing shortages and becoming a reseller.

    I'd also bet 1000 dollars you voted Biden just like other gun and armor dealers because they make a shit ton more money during democrat rule.

    Everyone needs to back off from this man. He has several economics degrees and knows what he is talking about!

    econ.png
     

    A & P

    Active Member
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    Aug 4, 2014
    367
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    Tomball/Magnolia
    I'd also bet 1000 dollars you voted Biden just like other gun and armor dealers because they make a shit ton more money during democrat rule.

    You're kind of right, but only about some things. You're also talking macroeconomics versus microeconomics, but you know that of course. Very "democrat" of you. Call it ivory-tower academics versus reality. Welcome to the real world, professor.

    You have the actual producer. Then you have the standard distribution channels. But then you have a normal consumer who becomes a seller. And as for your knowledge about the gun business, eh, it's not so good. We sold ammo without an FFL, because you don't need one, before we got the FFL. I could buy it from a few normal firearms distributor, but we also could buy it from a lawn and garden distributor. The real essence was that we didn't pay sales tax since it was resale. It is true, that we had to be a retailer to buy from distributors, but that wasn't necessarily a Remington thing. That was more from the distributors. I'll give you a pass on still calling it "reseller law", but so as far as controlling who sells their product, not really. Some manfs have distribution agreements. More don't. That's also where MAP pricing comes in that so many customer bitch about. If there is an agreement, it's usually just to not disclose wholesale pricing. The net effect is that I did have access to that because I am a retailer in general, but it's not directly controlled by Remington. And once I own the product, even as a reseller, Remington doesn't give a rats ass what I sell it for (again, contrary to MAP agreements like on Vortex, Glock, and others).

    Suffice it to say we were part of the "standard distribution channel to the consuming public". I was splitting hairs over the actual producer. And as we'll ignore my use as a consumer, which we technically are, when we use it for training or classes or testing. So we're both.

    However, what about the myrid of other examples where people buy and sell: houses, cars, boats, and especially other durables. In many cases, things are bought for X and sold for X-plus. Many guns are bought, used, and later sold. Hell, I could buy a crate of Mosin-Nagants just a few years ago for $2000 (20 guns). Today they're $300 each. When is it gouging versus just good timing?

    There is not enough buying power in the people who are buying the ammo to create false scarcity. This isn't the Hunt Brothers cornering the silver market. Or DeBeers or other cartels artificially controlling supply. You want to know who really creates the false scarcity? The consumer. When someone who really needs one box of 9mm buys 10 because they heard it's hard to find. Technically, that's real demand. It'll also tend to die off or normalize just like the AR market did when the prices crashed after 2012(?).

    Truth is, you don't really understand the false scarcity concept I guess. Supply isn't being artifically constrained. Primers are the bottleneck. Primers are being made as fast as they can. There is no artificial constraint. And nobody is hoarding ammo. You really think one guy is buying all this up just to constrict the supply? If anything, it's the opposite problem. There is (like this COVID bullshit) a false panic. It's like all these retards buying up toilet paper. Is there a shortage of toilet paper? Well, yes, but not because Charmin is controlling it. They woke up one day and said WTF? Where'd the TP go? Pandemic, irrational buying is driving the price up. It's like myriad stocks. Ever hear Cramer (or Alan Greenspan) mention "irrational exuberance"? It's like that. People keep demanding more, regardless of intrinsic value. It's also like art. There is a finite number of Picassos. You want it. You have to pay more than the last guy did if it's still in vogue. If it's Beanie Babies though, someone got punked. Someone paid $1000 for that Princess Di beanie baby I found at Goodwill that my dog chews on.

    As for business, a producer cannot elastically produce the product. "Artificial scarcity" requires the concept that supply is elastic and an "infinite quantity" can be produced to satisfy infinite demand. Not so, not really. If Remington (CCI, Federal, Winchester) wanted to tool up to make more primers, it might take a big investment and a 2 to 5 year payback or break even on the investment. They don't know how long this will last. They're running 24/7/365 right now but it's not smart to add 50-100% capacity just to meet what is surely a short term issue. Remember when 22 ammo was scarce and people said "they should build another factory"? That's why those people don't run businesses.

    So the primer makers (the bottleneck) can't keep up. It's the opposite of artificial scarcity. It's not an infinite supply.

    As for the other part of that the the consumer who collect and becomes a distributor or dealer, well, that's just finding opportunity. Is the house flipper a producer or consumer? Is the gun collector who sells at gunshows a producer or consumer? Is the guy selling his stockpile of ammo he bought (when he had a coupon or some cheapshit.com website was blowing it out with free shipping) for a markup now a producer? Is that guy the source of your so called scarcity?

    As far as the reseller scarcity model, which is arguable (even in professional circles), the collective buying power of the public (as resellers) is not coordinated enough or powerful enough to create the scarcity. People or businesses buying up concert tickets is kind of that idea, but that's a VERY finite supply. Ammo is still being produced. It's widely available. And if someone is hoarding, they'll get stuck with it at some point.

    I accept your bet, by the way. You can bring cash by. $1000. Whatever denominations you choose. Just please don't run over my Trump sign in front of our business like the girl who took out our fence the other day. While other people say they support Trump, and normal business owners say to not discuss politics for fear of alienating customers, we have posted, and sell, TRUMP 2020 flags in our store, have the Trump punisher shirts, and have yard signs in front of our business. My wife drove in the Magnolia parade in her logoed truck with the Women for Trump flags. I'm the guy who stands by myself with 400 BLM protestors in Tomball holding a "Blue Lives Matter" sign (made the local paper). I'm the guy who wore a mask exactly one time: in my wife's OB drs office. I saw all those women with big guts and said "I don't want to catch what they got" so I wore a mask. While you're drinking Kool Aid, I'm drinking whisky.

    We actually got into the business during the last year of Obama. When Trump got elected I said, "This is great for the country. Not so good for business. But as an ethical person, I think what's good for the country is more important than my selfish interests." Of course, we didn't get in the gun business based on the massive profits. We got in because we had a complementary business and the gun customers we tried to refer down the street said those guys sucked. So I said, "Well, if you're trying to spend that money anyway, let me see what I can do to get my FFL." And for three years we had the Trump slump. I did 5 gun shows. Never made a profit. Other vendors were reminiscing about selling $40k in a weekend during Obama. Now they couldn't pay their $80 table rent. I hear it's back to Obama levels, but I don't do gunshows anymore.

    So maybe make it $2000. It might only be worth $1000 by the time I get the money. Call it election inflation. Alternatively, if you have small pistol primers, I'll take trade. I'll give you $150/1000 primers credit. How's that sound. Bring me 6500 primers and we'll call it even.

    Finally, when you see these guys flipping ammo for a profit, just consider, they might have just been forcibly laid off due to some ivory tower "good for thee but not for me" experts telling us to shut down. Maybe the only way they can pay their bills is by adapting to the new world order. I think it's ridiculous that people sit in line at Academy to buy one or two boxes of ammo each day. Some people go to 10-Ring every day to buy their ONE sleeve of primers. Talk about expensive! Oh well. So maybe that guy flipping ammo is putting in the grind to find it, consolidate it, and make it available...and that meager profit he makes is putting food on his table. And when the store is selling it for a premium, it's because he can't get any guns in to sell to pay the normal bills.

    Funny how people on here and elsewhere always want sellers to make just enough to eat and stay dry. Anything else is gouging.
     

    J Galt

    New Member
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    Nov 2, 2020
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    Montgomery
    Something is worth what someone will pay. Supply and demand will prevail. What business is it of mine if someone is willing to pay more than the original price for something? The answer is, it isn't.

    The only person that should be worrying about the price of something is the person paying for it. They either will or they won't. The object will either sell or it won't.

    Price gouging laws are bullshit. It just creates shortages and moves in-demand goods to the black market.
     

    scarab

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    Mar 29, 2018
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    Deep East Texas
    We have a gunsmith shop and test every gun we work on with live rounds before releasing them. I have a problem with actually charging people what the ammo costs me to get. They squeal like a stuck pig. I admit the prices are high and that's a reality: even .22LR is now 40 cents a round, when you can find it. I can't afford to give it away, and folding the price of the ammo into the cost of service is a flag they see through. I usually tell them to bring their ammo they use with the gun. What else can we do? Prices are through the roof!
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    The Woodlands, Tx.
    Something is worth what someone will pay. Supply and demand will prevail. What business is it of mine if someone is willing to pay more than the original price for something? The answer is, it isn't.

    The only person that should be worrying about the price of something is the person paying for it. They either will or they won't. The object will either sell or it won't.

    Price gouging laws are bullshit. It just creates shortages and moves in-demand goods to the black market.

    Welcome to the Forum!
     

    MTA

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    Mar 10, 2017
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    Fannin
    You're kind of right, but only about some things. You're also talking macroeconomics versus microeconomics, but you know that of course. Very "democrat" of you. Call it ivory-tower academics versus reality. Welcome to the real world, professor.

    You have the actual producer. Then you have the standard distribution channels. But then you have a normal consumer who becomes a seller. And as for your knowledge about the gun business, eh, it's not so good. We sold ammo without an FFL, because you don't need one, before we got the FFL. I could buy it from a few normal firearms distributor, but we also could buy it from a lawn and garden distributor. The real essence was that we didn't pay sales tax since it was resale. It is true, that we had to be a retailer to buy from distributors, but that wasn't necessarily a Remington thing. That was more from the distributors. I'll give you a pass on still calling it "reseller law", but so as far as controlling who sells their product, not really. Some manfs have distribution agreements. More don't. That's also where MAP pricing comes in that so many customer bitch about. If there is an agreement, it's usually just to not disclose wholesale pricing. The net effect is that I did have access to that because I am a retailer in general, but it's not directly controlled by Remington. And once I own the product, even as a reseller, Remington doesn't give a rats ass what I sell it for (again, contrary to MAP agreements like on Vortex, Glock, and others).

    Suffice it to say we were part of the "standard distribution channel to the consuming public". I was splitting hairs over the actual producer. And as we'll ignore my use as a consumer, which we technically are, when we use it for training or classes or testing. So we're both.

    However, what about the myrid of other examples where people buy and sell: houses, cars, boats, and especially other durables. In many cases, things are bought for X and sold for X-plus. Many guns are bought, used, and later sold. Hell, I could buy a crate of Mosin-Nagants just a few years ago for $2000 (20 guns). Today they're $300 each. When is it gouging versus just good timing?

    There is not enough buying power in the people who are buying the ammo to create false scarcity. This isn't the Hunt Brothers cornering the silver market. Or DeBeers or other cartels artificially controlling supply. You want to know who really creates the false scarcity? The consumer. When someone who really needs one box of 9mm buys 10 because they heard it's hard to find. Technically, that's real demand. It'll also tend to die off or normalize just like the AR market did when the prices crashed after 2012(?).

    Truth is, you don't really understand the false scarcity concept I guess. Supply isn't being artifically constrained. Primers are the bottleneck. Primers are being made as fast as they can. There is no artificial constraint. And nobody is hoarding ammo. You really think one guy is buying all this up just to constrict the supply? If anything, it's the opposite problem. There is (like this COVID bullshit) a false panic. It's like all these retards buying up toilet paper. Is there a shortage of toilet paper? Well, yes, but not because Charmin is controlling it. They woke up one day and said WTF? Where'd the TP go? Pandemic, irrational buying is driving the price up. It's like myriad stocks. Ever hear Cramer (or Alan Greenspan) mention "irrational exuberance"? It's like that. People keep demanding more, regardless of intrinsic value. It's also like art. There is a finite number of Picassos. You want it. You have to pay more than the last guy did if it's still in vogue. If it's Beanie Babies though, someone got punked. Someone paid $1000 for that Princess Di beanie baby I found at Goodwill that my dog chews on.

    As for business, a producer cannot elastically produce the product. "Artificial scarcity" requires the concept that supply is elastic and an "infinite quantity" can be produced to satisfy infinite demand. Not so, not really. If Remington (CCI, Federal, Winchester) wanted to tool up to make more primers, it might take a big investment and a 2 to 5 year payback or break even on the investment. They don't know how long this will last. They're running 24/7/365 right now but it's not smart to add 50-100% capacity just to meet what is surely a short term issue. Remember when 22 ammo was scarce and people said "they should build another factory"? That's why those people don't run businesses.

    So the primer makers (the bottleneck) can't keep up. It's the opposite of artificial scarcity. It's not an infinite supply.

    As for the other part of that the the consumer who collect and becomes a distributor or dealer, well, that's just finding opportunity. Is the house flipper a producer or consumer? Is the gun collector who sells at gunshows a producer or consumer? Is the guy selling his stockpile of ammo he bought (when he had a coupon or some cheapshit.com website was blowing it out with free shipping) for a markup now a producer? Is that guy the source of your so called scarcity?

    As far as the reseller scarcity model, which is arguable (even in professional circles), the collective buying power of the public (as resellers) is not coordinated enough or powerful enough to create the scarcity. People or businesses buying up concert tickets is kind of that idea, but that's a VERY finite supply. Ammo is still being produced. It's widely available. And if someone is hoarding, they'll get stuck with it at some point.

    I accept your bet, by the way. You can bring cash by. $1000. Whatever denominations you choose. Just please don't run over my Trump sign in front of our business like the girl who took out our fence the other day. While other people say they support Trump, and normal business owners say to not discuss politics for fear of alienating customers, we have posted, and sell, TRUMP 2020 flags in our store, have the Trump punisher shirts, and have yard signs in front of our business. My wife drove in the Magnolia parade in her logoed truck with the Women for Trump flags. I'm the guy who stands by myself with 400 BLM protestors in Tomball holding a "Blue Lives Matter" sign (made the local paper). I'm the guy who wore a mask exactly one time: in my wife's OB drs office. I saw all those women with big guts and said "I don't want to catch what they got" so I wore a mask. While you're drinking Kool Aid, I'm drinking whisky.

    We actually got into the business during the last year of Obama. When Trump got elected I said, "This is great for the country. Not so good for business. But as an ethical person, I think what's good for the country is more important than my selfish interests." Of course, we didn't get in the gun business based on the massive profits. We got in because we had a complementary business and the gun customers we tried to refer down the street said those guys sucked. So I said, "Well, if you're trying to spend that money anyway, let me see what I can do to get my FFL." And for three years we had the Trump slump. I did 5 gun shows. Never made a profit. Other vendors were reminiscing about selling $40k in a weekend during Obama. Now they couldn't pay their $80 table rent. I hear it's back to Obama levels, but I don't do gunshows anymore.

    So maybe make it $2000. It might only be worth $1000 by the time I get the money. Call it election inflation. Alternatively, if you have small pistol primers, I'll take trade. I'll give you $150/1000 primers credit. How's that sound. Bring me 6500 primers and we'll call it even.

    Finally, when you see these guys flipping ammo for a profit, just consider, they might have just been forcibly laid off due to some ivory tower "good for thee but not for me" experts telling us to shut down. Maybe the only way they can pay their bills is by adapting to the new world order. I think it's ridiculous that people sit in line at Academy to buy one or two boxes of ammo each day. Some people go to 10-Ring every day to buy their ONE sleeve of primers. Talk about expensive! Oh well. So maybe that guy flipping ammo is putting in the grind to find it, consolidate it, and make it available...and that meager profit he makes is putting food on his table. And when the store is selling it for a premium, it's because he can't get any guns in to sell to pay the normal bills.

    Funny how people on here and elsewhere always want sellers to make just enough to eat and stay dry. Anything else is gouging.

    I usually scroll past posts this long but I am glad I took the time to read this one
     
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