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  • oldag

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    Feb 19, 2015
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/police...-knock-warrants-11590332400?mod=hp_listc_pos4

    Rand Paul and U.S. Rep. Thomas Massie, both Kentucky Republicans, are calling for the elimination of no-knock warrants.

    Some police departments have discontinued or restricted their use after raids went awry.

    One of the two residents fired at police who burst into the apartment. The other resident was struck by eight bullets and died. No criminal records.
    Target Sports
     

    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    2   0   0
    Jul 23, 2011
    21,358
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    Little Elm
    No knocks are bullshit. There are much better ways to take down people or search houses than assaulting a fortified structure blindly.

    Deference should be given to rights and assumptions of innocence. No amount of narcotics seizures is worth the life of one innocent person due to investigative or clerical errors. Dangerous people can be arrested by other means.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    There is an extreme failure in something when it results in an innocent person being killed because the wrong house was entered, or the information was faulty gotten by LE officers.

    IF, this were an isolated incident, I might be apt to think it's just a mistake, and mistakes, even tragic ones do happen from time to time. But this isn't an isolated instance of innocent people being gunned down in their own homes, who are law abiding citizens, minding their own business, due to a "no-knock" warrant being served.

    In no cases that I know of, are officers, departments, or judges being held accountable. And yes, the judges signing these warrants should be held accountable as well, since they are signing their names to the authorization of those warrants.

    And these are suppose to be people we are suppose to trust with the safety and well-being of our communities? That they can't verify and make sure that they have the correct address, or the correct people are in the residence they are about to serve the warrant on? Every time that one of these "mistakes" costs the lives of an innocent person, the general public loses faith and trust in LE.

    In short, no-knock warrants should be eliminated and made illegal.
     

    Sasquatch

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    Apr 20, 2020
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    Magnolia
    Was it at least the correct address for the warrant?

    Correct address, yes. The dude they wanted was already in police custody. They were looking for an Adrian Walker and a guy named Glover (Jamar or Jamal or something) - Adrian Walker is supposedly a felon with a history of felon in possession of a firearm. It wasn't Adrian Walker who was there tho, it was Kenneth Walker and Breona Taylor, and Kenneth Walker had no criminal history and actually had a license to carry.

    No Knocks are complete bullshit. No Knocks served by plain clothes cops in the middle of the night? Even bigger mound of bullshit. Charging the guy who shoots at three plain clothes cops who just booted your door without annoucning themselves with attempted murder? So much bullshit it needs a D5 CAT to push around.

    Its ironic, I've had this debate with a bunch of different people, and I've been saying that every cop needs a camera they can't turn off, especially when dealing with the public or serving warrants, and that no knocks need to end - and it just recently came out that Louisville is seriously curtailing no knocks - they're now requiring the Chief to sign off before the warrant is submitted to the court for approval, AND he just mandated all cops on a warrant detail be wearing a camera. I guess baby steps are better than none.

    I've had cops arguing that they're a valid tool - but I see it as a lazy way of short cutting and expediting their job while taking a steaming shit on the public's rights. Bad intel, mistaken address, or just shitty police work can lead to disastrous consequences, usually for the innocents who get drug into the situations. Bring more guys for your warrant party. Wear uniforms or have a uniformed cop as the first thru the door. And fuckin' announce who you are as you're booting the damn door. A cop I respect on another forum pointed out that its the rare occurance of police fucking up that makes it newsworthy, but a rarity that the news reports on drug dealing and the associated problems because its so common. And that's valid, except that the random fuckups by police tend to be deadly for the innocent people they're raiding, and one innocent killed because of police incompetence or poor practices is too damn many when there are other ways to do the job.

    The justification every cops I've talked to has given me is that no knocks decrease reaction time by the suspected bad guys to destroy evidence or flee the scene - bring enough people and surround the place to minimize the escape chances. As for evidence destruction? Shit happens. Its not the responsibility of the public to make the job of law enforcement easier, and in the 'game' of cops and robbers, the cops don't always get to win. If the suspects are indeed shitheads, they'll slip up and you can get them another time. You can always hit them with the destroying evidence charge anyway. Capone wasn't brought down for murder or any of his terrible crimes, he was brought down for tax evasion. Find another avenue to get your man, or I dunno, demand real accountability from prosecutors and judges who go light on the serious criminals.

    The war on drugs is a complete and total failure, as all prohibitionist policies are. Prohibition didn't work for booze. It doesn't work for guns. It doesn't work for sex, but we have a political class and a mass of voters who seem to think that more laws and more money for enforcing those laws is going to solve the drug problems. And this kind of shit is what we get for that. We've had 90+ years of drug prohibition in this country and the issue is getting worse, not better, because of how its being handled. Its made millionaires out of the dealers and cartel bosses, its put countless innocents in the ground, and yet we continue doing the same thing over and over.

    I don't do drugs, never have done drugs, and come from a family full of substance abusing turds I don't associate with - but criminalizing drugs doesn't work and I think we need to seriously re-evalute legalization + regulation and diverting the resources from the enforcement of the drug war into other avenues. I've been told that treatment programs don't work - ok, so then what's the alternative? Locking people up and continuing to support a black market trade? There's got to be a better way.
     

    vmax

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    Apr 15, 2013
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    The Abilene Police killed a business owner with a no knock
    From the time they entered till he lay shot up was about 7 seconds
    He was a cash for gold business and the warrant was for a paperwork violation

    They knew he carried a gun because of the nature if his business a d he had a ex felon as a business partner that's the excuse they used to come in the door and shoot him dead.
     

    oldag

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    The Abilene Police killed a business owner with a no knock
    From the time they entered till he lay shot up was about 7 seconds
    He was a cash for gold business and the warrant was for a paperwork violation

    They knew he carried a gun because of the nature if his business a d he had a ex felon as a business partner that's the excuse they used to come in the door and shoot him dead.
    Terrible.
     

    vmax

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    I always wondered why don't they just wait outside for the bad guys to leave. They gotta come out eventually. You can turn off water and electricity and other stuff to entice them.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

    I’m not trying do disagree with you whatsoever.. you think like me on this.. But we should remember that just because there is a warrant for someone , does not mean they are a bad guy.

    (Recalling from memory as I read on this a lot and posted it here before)
    A real meth head POS in east Texas was popped for dealing and they ask him if he had knowledge on anyone else dealing, they would go easy on him.
    This is a well known practice of investigators

    Well, in order to get deal he named some people.
    He said that this one guy was a major pot distributor

    The Sheriff no knocked his rural house in the dark, used a flash bang and the guy woke up startled to see a darkly dressed guy in his home, so he used his legally purchased handgun and shot and killed a sheriff deputy.

    They found one tiny pot plant the guy was growing. That’s all. No priors , nothing else.

    That one went to trial as they filed on the guy and he the Grand Jury would not return and indictment so he went free as he should have.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I’m not trying do disagree with you whatsoever.. you think like me on this.. But we should remember that just because there is a warrant for someone , does not mean they are a bad guy.

    A real meth head POS in east Texas was popped for dealing and they ask him if he had knowledge on anyone else dealing, they would go easy on him.
    This is a well known practice of investigators

    Well, in order to get deal he named some people.
    He said that this one guy was a major pot distributor

    The Sheriff no knocked his rural house in the dark, used a flash bang and the guy woke up startled to see a darkly dressed guy in his home, so he used his legally purchased handgun and shot and killed a sheriff deputy.

    They found one tiny pot plant the guy was growing. That’s all. No priors , nothing else.

    That one went to trial as they filed on the guy and he the Grand Jury would not return and indictment so he went free as he should have.

    This is part of the common problem with many "no-knock" warrants that go really bad. Too many times they are relying upon information from someone they have arrested, and is looking to deal to get out of the jam they are in, so they start naming names. Sad part is, the LE officers are not checking and verifying the information and get a judge to sign off on a warrant. They are either getting the wrong address, or the wrong people when the execute the warrant. This what gets innocent people shot, or killed.

    And seriously this is really bad. There are many ways they could confirm, and verify the information, or the address, or the people involved to make sure they are doing it properly.

    But until we as society start demanding some sort of reform, or legislation to end this from happening, and holding LE officers, their superiors, the departments, and the judges accountable for such fiascos, it will continue to happen. EVERY time this happens, we should be hammering our elected officials with phone calls, emails, on Facebook, social media and any other means to voice our disapproval of these "no-knock" warrants.
     

    Darkpriest667

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    9   0   0
    Jan 13, 2017
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    Jarrell TX, United States
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


    Any law enforcement officer, Judge, or other government official that is violating the 4th amendment should be strung up by the civilian population of their jurisdiction. No-knock warrants are a gross violation of the bill of rights.
     
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