APOD Firearms

Why "Not" 40 Caliber?

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    Benjamin

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    Welcome to the Forum!

    Did you read post #3?
    Thank you and yes I did. Reading all the posts just left me thinking that a perp with a big exit wound isn't going to inquire as to what caliber it was made with. Weather I use a .45 with an expanding bullet or a 9 with an expanding bullet, a large blood leak is a large blood leak. I mean how dead do you have to make someone before they are dead? I'm not terribly scientific and I don't study ballistics charts. That takes the fun out of shooting/trading and so on for me. I'm just being the voice of practicality I guess. If an attacker gets a hole in them, they are likely to reconsider their position if they are still able. I have rounds for target, rounds for small critters around the homestead and rounds specifically for defense. In this day and age, we can customize for any task and all from the same caliber. So, that being said, I prefer a 9 because its what I'm used to and any purpose I can think of, I can find a round to match. I'm not taking anything away from other calibers. Variety is the spice of life.
     

    candcallen

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    That's not actually hard data to support anything, but story time is alright too. Also I was referring to hard data to support your feelings about ballistics of pistol ammunition.
    I just gotta say the arrogant superiority stench coming off you is strong.

    Keep it up, a good self image is important in today's world.

    Next you'll say cool story bro.

    Lol
     

    satx78247

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    Thank you and yes I did. Reading all the posts just left me thinking that a perp with a big exit wound isn't going to inquire as to what caliber it was made with. Weather I use a .45 with an expanding bullet or a 9 with an expanding bullet, a large blood leak is a large blood leak. I mean how dead do you have to make someone before they are dead? I'm not terribly scientific and I don't study ballistics charts. That takes the fun out of shooting/trading and so on for me. I'm just being the voice of practicality I guess. If an attacker gets a hole in them, they are likely to reconsider their position if they are still able. I have rounds for target, rounds for small critters around the homestead and rounds specifically for defense. In this day and age, we can customize for any task and all from the same caliber. So, that being said, I prefer a 9 because its what I'm used to and any purpose I can think of, I can find a round to match. I'm not taking anything away from other calibers. Variety is the spice of life.

    Benjamin,

    WELCOME ABOARD.

    I feel the same about .45ACP, as when I was a LEO/MP, we were ISSUED M1911 or M1911A1 pistols.
    (Thus, I do NOT think of the "Old Warhorse" as HARD kicking & even though I was among the 1st to be issued an M11, I still think of the 9x19mm as a MARGINAL caliber for SD, using Ball ammo, which is what the government issues.)

    yours, satx
     

    Whistler

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    I don't think anybody cares what anyone chooses to shoot (except Glocks), the disagreement seems to be that due to advances in ammunition technology suddenly a 9mm is more effective than a .40 or a .45 despite equivalent technological advances.

    A ridiculous assertion at best but interesting to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to deny physics.
     

    Benjamin

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    ...and to put my 2 cents toward the OPs question, there is absolutely no good reason Not to have a .40 if that's what they want. We have the freedom to keep and bear arms so let's keep and bear as many as we can and exorcise that freedom to it's fullest responsible measure.
     

    zackmars

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    45 is king. With no expansion you all ways have a .45” hole. With a 9 you have to have expansion to approach what a fmj 45 does. So carry a 45 with some sort of hollow point self defense round and know your already ahead of the curve when it comes to wound size. Even if it fails to expand or fully expand the wound channel is gonna be larger than other calibers all things being equal.

    Flesh is elastic, a .45 isn't going to actually leave a .45" hole in somebody outside of a JHP wound track, and even then a 9mm JHP is only a hair behind, all while offering you more chances to hit a vital organ.


    If .45 was the better mousetrap, we wouldn't be having this conversation
     

    zackmars

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    I don't think anybody cares what anyone chooses to shoot (except Glocks), the disagreement seems to be that due to advances in ammunition technology suddenly a 9mm is more effective than a .40 or a .45 despite equivalent technological advances.

    A ridiculous assertion at best but interesting to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to deny physics.

    Yes, 9mm is more effective than .45 or .40

    Recoil, capacity, and cost per round, etc. Not exactly "mental gymnastics"
     

    Whistler

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    Flesh is elastic, a .45 isn't going to actually leave a .45" hole in somebody outside of a JHP wound track, and even then a 9mm JHP is only a hair behind, all while offering you more chances to hit a vital organ.


    If .45 was the better mousetrap, we wouldn't be having this conversation

    You know some 9mm's only hold 7-8 also right? So your argument is based on people only carrying higher capacity weapons? Or is it that everyone shoots 9mm better than .45? Or that 9mm is a few cents cheaper? Interesting.
     

    satx78247

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    Flesh is elastic, a .45 isn't going to actually leave a .45" hole in somebody outside of a JHP wound track, and even then a 9mm JHP is only a hair behind, all while offering you more chances to hit a vital organ.


    If .45 was the better mousetrap, we wouldn't be having this conversation

    zackmars,

    PARDON ME for inquiring but HOW MANY postmortems have you attended where the deceased was shot by a JHP out of a .40S&W or a .45ACP??
    (After I retired from the Army, I worked for a civilian LE agency that issued GOLDEN SABER for just over 3 years. = The Golden Saber makes a "really bloody mess" out of the thorax & the wound is FAR more severe than that of 9x19mm JHP.)

    yours, satx
     

    roadkill

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    Flesh is elastic, a .45 isn't going to actually leave a .45" hole in somebody outside of a JHP wound track, and even then a 9mm JHP is only a hair behind, all while offering you more chances to hit a vital organ.


    If .45 was the better mousetrap, we wouldn't be having this conversation

    So all things being equal expansion aside what would leave a larger wound channel, 9mm or .45? More chances to hit a vital? Wouldn’t a slightly larger wound channel also give you a slightly better chance of hitting a vital organ?
     

    Benjamin

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    I don't think anybody cares what anyone chooses to shoot (except Glocks), the disagreement seems to be that due to advances in ammunition technology suddenly a 9mm is more effective than a .40 or a .45 despite equivalent technological advances.

    A ridiculous assertion at best but interesting to watch the mental gymnastics some will go through to deny physics.
    Exactly. Fully capable of doing the job is capable enough. A .40 is capable, a 9 is capable, as is a .45. Past a certain point, a wound is a wound. Hopefully, I never have to be on either side of that scenario so it actually all boils down to just having cool toys.
     

    zackmars

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    You know some 9mm's only hold 7-8 also right? So your argument is based on people only carrying higher capacity weapons? Or is it that everyone shoots 9mm better than .45? Or that 9mm is a few cents cheaper? Interesting.

    Compare a 9mm 1911 fullsize mag to a .45 acp mag. A 9mm mag holds 9-10 while a .45 acp holds 7-8.

    Have you ever held a double stack .45?

    9mm nearly matches the ballistics of .45 while allowing more capacity, being cheaper, and having more plentiful choices in not only loadings, but firearms as well.

    .45 is only like 2 years older than 9mm, if it was better, the market would show less of a gap in sales.
     

    zackmars

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    So all things being equal expansion aside what would leave a larger wound channel, 9mm or .45? More chances to hit a vital? Wouldn’t a slightly larger wound channel also give you a slightly better chance of hitting a vital organ?

    Not compared to another round


    And if thats a miss as well, that's just another hole to bleed from
     

    Whistler

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    Compare a 9mm 1911 fullsize mag to a .45 acp mag. A 9mm mag holds 9-10 while a .45 acp holds 7-8.

    Have you ever held a double stack .45?

    9mm nearly matches the ballistics of .45 while allowing more capacity, being cheaper, and having more plentiful choices in not only loadings, but firearms as well.

    .45 is only like 2 years older than 9mm, if it was better, the market would show less of a gap in sales.

    Forgive the temporary lapse, for a moment there I forgot you were always right and your opinion the only valid position. What could I have been thinking?
     

    zackmars

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    zackmars,

    PARDON ME for inquiring but HOW MANY postmortems have you attended where the deceased was shot by a JHP out of a .40S&W or a .45ACP??
    (After I retired from the Army, I worked for a civilian LE agency that issued GOLDEN SABER for just over 3 years. = The Golden Saber makes a "really bloody mess" out of the thorax & the wound is FAR more severe than that of 9x19mm JHP.)

    yours, satx

    Golden saber is also avalible in 9mm, and is a JHP. Not sure why you talk as if it isn't.

    While post mortems can offer valuable insight, it isnt the whole story.
     

    zackmars

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    Forgive the temporary lapse, for a moment there I forgot you were always right and your opinion the only valid position. What could I have been thinking?

    Im wrong lots of times, but some critical thinking kinda supports my posistion.
     

    ZX9RCAM

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    The easy way to solve it would be to limit it to a single shot.
    Take cost, and round count out of it.

    Which caliber would you rather use?

    Not directed towards anyone in particular.
     
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