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Texas LTC Holder Shoots Robbery Suspect

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  • F350-6

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    It did not say that, but they did let him go. If they found him to have been drinking, I would think the story would have ended differently.

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    So if he had been drinking a beer, the legal definition of a justified shooting suddenly changes? Legal shoot with no alcohol, but illegal if he had part of a beer?
     

    JCC

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    My understanding is that it is unlawful for a Texas LTC holder to consume alcohol while carrying a firearm. If the police found that he was drinking, would that not mean he was acting unlawfully by carrying? Not trying to start an argument. Just wondering.

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    F350-6

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    My understanding is that it is unlawful for a Texas LTC holder to consume alcohol while carrying a firearm. If the police found that he was drinking, would that not mean he was acting unlawfully by carrying? Not trying to start an argument. Just wondering.

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    That's the safe way to understand it. Technically I believe you have to be impaired by the alcohol for it to cause a problem. But since that is initially open to interpretation by the responding officer, it's better to play it safe.

    In this particular situation, if the homeowner expressed permission for the shooter to carry on his property, then you could theoretically remove the LTC from the equation. And as a Monday morning quarterback, I'd say it's going to be pretty easy to get permission from the homeowner after the fact with the results we've seen.
     

    txinvestigator

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    My understanding is that it is unlawful for a Texas LTC holder to consume alcohol while carrying a firearm. If the police found that he was drinking, would that not mean he was acting unlawfully by carrying? Not trying to start an argument. Just wondering.

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    Well, that is incorrect. It is unlawful to carry while intoxicated, but nothing proscribed the consumption of alcohol while carrying.
     

    txinvestigator

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    That's the safe way to understand it. Technically I believe you have to be impaired by the alcohol for it to cause a problem. But since that is initially open to interpretation by the responding officer, it's better to play it safe.

    In this particular situation, if the homeowner expressed permission for the shooter to carry on his property, then you could theoretically remove the LTC from the equation. And as a Monday morning quarterback, I'd say it's going to be pretty easy to get permission from the homeowner after the fact with the results we've seen.
    A property owner cannot give permission to a person to carry on that property, per se.

    Without an LTC a person can carry on his own property or property under his control.
     

    JCC

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    You are saying it is legal to carry while drinking as long as you are not at or above the legal limit?

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    F350-6

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    A property owner cannot give permission to a person to carry on that property, per se.

    Without an LTC a person can carry on his own property or property under his control.

    So if I give someone permission to hunt on my land with firearms, they're not allowed to carry while doing so?

    I'd have to try and look up the statue, but I'm pretty sure it's legal to carry a firearm on someone's property with permission, regardless of LTC status.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    You are saying it is legal to carry while drinking as long as you are not at or above the legal limit?

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    My understanding is that there is no specific legal level of intoxication for carrying a firearm. In other words, it's not the same as the legal limit for DWI, .08%. And since there is no specific BAC referenced in the statutes, it is up to the discretion of the LEO.
     
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    JCC

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    My understanding is that there is no specific legal level of intoxication for carrying a firearm. In other words, it's not the same as the legal limit for DWI, .008%. And since there is no specific BAC referenced in the statutes, it is up to the discretion of the LEO.
    That sounds risky.

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    toddnjoyce

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    So if I give someone permission to hunt on my land with firearms, they're not allowed to carry while doing so?

    I'd have to try and look up the statue, but I'm pretty sure it's legal to carry a firearm on someone's property with permission, regardless of LTC status.

    As I mentioned earlier, there are some exceptions to “your property or property you control”. Generally speaking, if you are hunting with a legal means of take, and by a legal method and all the things that go with legally hunting, you may not require a LTC for a handgun that’s openly carried.

    Concealed carry while hunting starts to cross some
    wires in the various codes, and it can range from not recommended without an LTC to prohibited without an LTC depending on the type of land you’re on and who’s asking.

    Somewhat similar to a competitive shooting event, where you’re not required to have an LTC to participate, but if you’re not participating, then it’s not legal.
     

    txinvestigator

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    You are saying it is legal to carry while drinking as long as you are not at or above the legal limit?

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    There is no such thing as a "legal limit". Even DWI doesn't have one. .08%is the BAC at which everyone is presumed to be intoxicated for the purpose of DWI. However, it isn't a "limit". A person can be convicted below .08%, even at ZERO (drugs, which have no BAC).

    There are two definitions of intoxication for DWI. Carrying while intoxicated has no defined definition in 46.03. A LTC holder will likely never be offered an intoxilyzer, and the same criteria for a DWI who refused to blow would be used.

    There is no proscription in the Penal Code against carrying while consuming alcohol.
     

    txinvestigator

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    So if I give someone permission to hunt on my land with firearms, they're not allowed to carry while doing so?
    per penal code 46.15(b), section 46.02 (which proscribes the carry of handguns unless on your own property or property under your control) does not apply to a person lawfully hunting if the weapon (handgun) is one commonly used in hunting.

    I'd have to try and look up the statue, but I'm pretty sure it's legal to carry a firearm on someone's property with permission, regardless of LTC status.

    It is not. Here is the rundown;

    1. 46.02 says you cannot carry a handgun on or about your person UNLESS
    a) you are on your own property or property under your control
    b) you are inside of or enroute to a motor vehicle or watercraft you own or is under your control.


    2) Penal Code 46.15 (b) states instances when 46.02 does not apply. None of those are "if the owner tells you it's OK to carry"

    Texas Penal Code 46.15(b)
    (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

    (1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 437.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;

    (2) is traveling;

    (3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

    (4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as an officer commissioned under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment and is wearing the officer's uniform and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view;

    (5) acts as a personal protection officer and carries the person's security officer commission and personal protection officer authorization, if the person:

    (A) is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a personal protection officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment; and

    (B) is either:

    (i) wearing the uniform of a security officer, including any uniform or apparel described by Section 1702.323(d), Occupations Code, and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view; or

    (ii) not wearing the uniform of a security officer and carrying the officer's weapon in a concealed manner;

    (6) is carrying:

    (A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and

    (B) a handgun:

    (i) in a concealed manner; or

    (ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;

    (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises; or

    (8) is a student in a law enforcement class engaging in an activity required as part of the class, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity and the person is:

    (A) on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted; or

    (B) en route between those premises and the person's residence and is carrying the weapon unloaded.
     

    Glenn B

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    All the legal where you can & when you can carry nonsense aside, nice to see the guy shot straight and got one of them and that the other two fled without killing or harming any of the party goers. Anyone who might seriously think this was a failure, on the part of the good guy who shot the bad guy, should rethink it.
     

    F350-6

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    per penal code 46.15(b), section 46.02 (which proscribes the carry of handguns unless on your own property or property under your control) does not apply to a person lawfully hunting if the weapon (handgun) is one commonly used in hunting.



    It is not. Here is the rundown;

    1. 46.02 says you cannot carry a handgun on or about your person UNLESS
    a) you are on your own property or property under your control
    b) you are inside of or enroute to a motor vehicle or watercraft you own or is under your control.


    2) Penal Code 46.15 (b) states instances when 46.02 does not apply. None of those are "if the owner tells you it's OK to carry"

    So which part of the penal code allows one to carry a handgun, concealed in a range bag and then visit and shoot at a local range? You know, a place owned by someone else, where you don't have any control of the premises, but with their permission you bring your concealed pistol in and then shoot it, regardless of LTC status?
     

    txinvestigator

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    So which part of the penal code allows one to carry a handgun, concealed in a range bag and then visit and shoot at a local range? You know, a place owned by someone else, where you don't have any control of the premises, but with their permission you bring your concealed pistol in and then shoot it, regardless of LTC status?
    46.15 (b) handgun shooting is a lawful sporting activity where handguns are commonly used.

    But, if there is a provision that allows you to carry on someone else's property simply on their permission, I'd love to read it.
     
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