Suppressor basics

[HKShooter65]

Actually, this past weekend marks the 3rd year anniversary since I started this process at the now defunct Gun Corps in College Station. Trust me when I tell you the process is a whole lot less streamlined after a gun shop goes bankrupt and the bank repossesses their inventory.

Interesting point.

What DOES happen, under BATFE/NFA rules, if a bank or any other organization takes possession of NFA items?

I've wondered such things.

 

[HKShooter65]

In a non-moving BBL, as the gasses move forward, they hit the baffles and "push" them forward, causing the piston to compress. Then when the pressure is down, it snaps back hard against the non-moving BBL and shit starts to break.

Makes sort of sense.
But then I cannot really say that my Nielson piston/spring devices makes intuitive sense in the first place, though recently I shot my AAC Ti-rant and it was quite dirty and the piston was semi-seized up. Trusty Beretta 92 failed to cycle. Little spritz of Barricade spray oil on the piston and it worked perfectly again.

 

[Joshua - Capitol Armory]

Interesting point.
What DOES happen, under BATFE/NFA rules, if a bank or any other organization takes possession of NFA items?
I've wondered such things.

They don't, that would be an illegal transfer. Even the IRS can't just "take" them.

Most cases the ATF comes in and helps the dealer to transfer to another party or the dealer keeps a license but only to stick around to transfer pending items. If no one plays ball or there's a problem, the ATF just seizes inventory and decides what to do with them at that point. I've had the ATF show up with forms in hand and give us cans that were seized from other dealers.... but that's a pretty big courtesy, they don't have to do anything like that.

 

[Joshua - Capitol Armory]

Makes sort of sense.
But then I cannot really say that my Nielson piston/spring devices makes intuitive sense in the first place, though recently I shot my AAC Ti-rant and it was quite dirty and the piston was semi-seized up. Trusty Beretta 92 failed to cycle. Little spritz of Barricade spray oil on the piston and it worked perfectly again.

A pistol is designed to function 'as is.' The first action of the barrel is to move rearward, then tilt. It's not made to have another 10+ ounces hanging on the end. In some cases, you're adding 30% of the guns weight to the front of it. Imagine strapping 70lbs to your foot and trying to walk. The piston allows the barrel to pull away from the suppressor for a fraction of a second, negating the weight and drag of the can on the end of the pistol.

 

[MrOrangeVest]

Interesting point.

What DOES happen, under BATFE/NFA rules, if a bank or any other organization takes possession of NFA items?

I've wondered such things.

Well, in my (feel free to correct me here if you know better) layman's terms, the bank comes in to repossess the entire inventory, but is not licensed to handle it. The bank contracts with a FFL to hold the items while the paperwork gets shuffled.

In my case, the bank was working to get one of their people licensed to become the dealer for all of the inventory in question. That took the first year or so. Another gun store in the area held all of the inventory while that process happened behind the scenes.

Then the bank reached out to get all of the people's stuff to them that they can identify through the records. NFA was at the bottom of the list. They had the property for ~90 people identified that they were able to return before contacting the NFA item customers.

This was about when I was contacted for the first time, 2 years after I first submitted my paperwork.

BATFE and NFA don't seem to work too well together. I only have part of the story, but my paperwork was submitted again 3+ months ago, with another $200 for a tax stamp and a promise that they were going to fast track us within 90 days. Somebody somewhere in the chain of command (NFA branch leadership) doesn't like doing this and is forcing the remainder of this stuff to be done at one time and they are refusing to move anybody else's (from Gun Corps) paperwork until every signature, check, and fingerprint card gets submitted properly. Maybe then we'll see the 90 days observed.

SHEESH!

 

[HKShooter65]

... I've had the ATF show up with forms in hand and give us cans that were seized from other dealers.... but that's a pretty big courtesy, they don't have to do anything like that.

BATFE agents are just like pretty much any other law enforcement personal.
They are honorable professionals working within the law to serve the citizens they serve and protect.

Yay to them.

 

[HKShooter65]

The piston allows the barrel to pull away from the suppressor for a fraction of a second, negating the weight and drag of the can on the end of the pistol.

Yes indeed, but I think that is just half of the physics involved. See my post just above.

View attachment 193154
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_booster

Read about the 110 year old Vickers design as well as its piston assist akin to our pistol cans.
The "Modern Applications" section is the salient portion.

The spring momentarily decouples the mass of the can from the about-to-move barrel/slide which are still rigidly locked together. You are correct.

And....for the rest of the story (Remember Paul Harvey anyone?)
It, the Nielson Device, is first a mass decoupler and then a gas piston powered recoil booster. Elegant, clever, simple and effective.

The trapped gas pressure within the suppressor give a big "oomph" of a push to the whole assembly, via the piston, to get it all moving sufficiently to cycle the action.

Still not totally intuitive but totally effective!

 

[MrOrangeVest]

So, does a handgun with a Nielsen device equipped suppressor need any more modification to have it reliably function? For instance do you have to change the recoil spring? Is there something else that needs to be modified to accommodate successfully functioning a pistol?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

None of my suppressor hosts have needed any modifications.

 

[HKShooter65]

So, does a handgun with a Nielsen device equipped suppressor need any more modification to have it reliably function? For instance do you have to change the recoil spring? Is there something else that needs to be modified to accommodate successfully functioning a pistol?

Other than correct threading, no.

I think it is safe to presume that the engineers who design the suppressor's piston device do so such that it allows a typical in-spec semi-auto handgun to cycle properly.

 

[MrOrangeVest]

So why do I keep seeing people talk about changing springs and other things when using a suppressor? Is there a difference between moving barrel and non-moving barrel?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

So why do I keep seeing people talk about changing springs and other things when using a suppressor? Is there a difference between moving barrel and non-moving barrel?

My Walther PPQ came with 2 different springs.
One for normal shooting, one for with suppressor.

 

[HKShooter65]

My Walther PPQ came with 2 different springs.
One for normal shooting, one for with suppressor.

Interesting.

Any semi-auto pistol functionality has to be a bit of a balanced dance between opposing forces. Kinetic energy of the accelerating projectile vs inertia of the barrel/slide vs the spring's static tensioning.

Adding weight upsets the balance. The Nielson device attempts to remedy the upset.
Your PPQ must have a temperamental attitude that the manufacturer corrected with the additional spring?

Have you had opportunity to try both springs with and without a suppressor?

Would love to learn more.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Interesting.

Any semi-auto pistol functionality has to be a bit of a balanced dance between opposing forces. Kinetic energy of the accelerating projectile vs inertia of the barrel/slide vs the spring's static tensioning.

Adding weight upsets the balance. The Nielson device attempts to remedy the upset.
Your PPQ must have a temperamental attitude that the manufacturer corrected with the additional spring?

Have you had opportunity to try both springs with and without a suppressor?

Would love to learn more.

I've had the opportunity, but not the desire to do opposite of what the manufacturer suggtests.
Following their instructions it works great.
All my other hosts I have only used factory installed springs.

 

[Rango]

Not surprised that a spring change would be required, it is a system.
I know a PD that had to change out a bunch of Magazine springs after Officers installed LIGHTS on issue M22 Glocks. The weight of the light changed the cycle time just enough that it was an issue.

 

[MrOrangeVest]

Here's an example of someone not using the spacer.

 

[lightflyer1]

I sure am glad this was posted! I had bought the 9mm piston with the .45 Griffin Resistance silencer so I could use it for both. I had no idea I also needed this sleeve. Bought both the sleeve and end cap for 9mm. Now I should be ready for both my Glock 21 and 19 as well as my AR9mm and MechTech Glock 21 carbine. Thanks again for the video on this! Probably saved me some cash.

 

[MrOrangeVest]

How about wet vs dry? How does that work? Can any suppressor have water added to it? Is it just water? Oil? Something else? Are there potential corrosion issues with water?

 

[claymore504]

Great thread. I am wanting to get into supressors now as well. Main focus will be rifles for hunting pigs. This will for sure be an AR 5.56, AK 7.62 and maybe a Socom16. Would like one can to cover all these rifles if possible.

Then I have some pistols I would like to use a can on, CZ P09 9mm and P01 9mm.

So , I am thinking two different cans.

 

[pronstar]

A 7.62/308-rated can will cover all of your rifles


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