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  • TheMailMan

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    Is it time to disarm the police?

    Or at least change their training.

    We've seen two incidents where police were outside a house at night and shot into the house killing an innocent person.

    Anyone with two brain cells knows that when the lights are on inside a house at night you can't see shit out in the dark. Also, on most houses, if the windows are closed you can't hear someone outside.

    Maybe it's time we changed the training for police so they understand these two simple things.

    Have them go through the academy, like they do now, then have them go on the job UNARMED for at least 2-3 years. After that time period they then go for an additional 1000 hours of training in tactics and firearms. Have them inside a dwelling with the light on at night, see if they can see or hear other trainees outside. There are lots of other types training that could and should be done. Teach some basic common sense.

    If they pass this training, then and ONLY then, will they be allowed to carry a firearm.


    In my past life I was an OJI for 15 years. I'll be the first to tell you that it takes a minimum of two years before someone can efficiently deliver the mail and know the job.

    I'm damn sure it's the same for law enforcement. They are given a bare minimum of training then turned loose with the power of life and death. They are trained their #1 job is going home at the end of their shift. I'll call bullshit on that one. Their #1 job is to ensure the safety of the citizens they are sworn to protect. Make them have 2-3 years of practical experience before they are given the power of life and death. Let them know they are no better than any other citizen when it comes to use of force. In fact, they should be held to a higher standard.
    Target Sports
     

    busykngt

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    Their #1 job is to ensure the safety of the citizens they are sworn to protect.
    From 2005:
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    And again from 2018:
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    TexasRedneck

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    Are you out of your freakin' mind, or a democrat??? Obviously, training policies need to be reviewed, as do the psych exams given to those entering the service - but to even SUGGEST they be unarmed at ANY time is nothing short of stupid. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that's ABSOLUTELY the most STUPID thing I've read!!
    Given the thousands of LEO's on duty in every state at any given moment, it's actually a testament to their training and screening that more of these don't happen. Don't get me wrong - ONE is too many - but the answer is NOT to require them to become soft targets.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    Given the thousands of LEO's on duty in every state at any given moment, it's actually a testament to their training and screening that more of these don't happen. Don't get me wrong - ONE is too many - but the answer is NOT to require them to become soft targets.
    FIFY
     

    TheMailMan

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    The military can produce a fully qualified combat pilot from scratch in less than 2 years.

    The answer you seek is not in the training, it’s in the recruit.

    You're probably right. However we need to have inclusive recruitment policies for police. We don't want the 5'2" 105 lb girly men or manly girls to feel butt hurt because they can't be a cop.

    I'd much rather hiring policy be skewed towards Veteran's than people who had 6 years to blow while obtaining a 4 year degree in gender studies.

    They are hiring snowflakes with meaningless degrees over someone who did tours in the sandbox and didn't go to college. The average E-3 in a combat MOS has more understanding of rules of engagement than 99% of college graduates. Those college graduates are what is giving us people so damn scared of shadows that they are murdering people.

    I know there was recently a deputy that was no-billed by the Grand Jury. That was what the DA was aiming for. If he wanted that deputy to be billed he would have done so. That's a big flaw in the Grand Jury process. They are only told what the DA wants them to hear.

    Maybe that's what we need. ROE for the cops. Break the ROE and your ass is grass.

    As for my original proposal. The rookies armed with less lethal options would be paired with a firearms qualified officer.
     

    mad88minute

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    Oct 13, 2017
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    Not a big fan of the increasing more "police state" we are currently living in but an unarmed Cor for 2-3 years is not a good idea. I know of a man who was shot and killed his first month on the job responding to a domestic disturbance involving a gun.
    Combat veteran. Plenty of experience prior to service. We would have police men dying by large numbers, and I'm not for that either.

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    toddnjoyce

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    Honestly, I’m not a fan of military/combat arms experience transitioning to LE for several reasons, one of which is I need combat arms guys to be young, motivated, and slightly pissed off.

    I believe the average patrol cop needs to be an older, even-keeled, critical thinker, with broad life experiences.

    Quite honestly, I feel the more complex the environment, the more maturity, experience, and intelligence you need. That kinda of tips the traditional model of starting in patrol on its head.

    Taxpayers don’t want to pay what it costs for that kind of force mix, though.

    And most agencies already have ROE in place, it’s simply called something else...usually a Use of Force policy.

    In the different thinking category, imagine lifting the veil of liability for the actions taken by LEOs.
     
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    Byrd666

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    I believe part of the problem is in how Law Enforcement is being labeled as "the enemy" and being attacked in so many different ways and from so many different angles. You can't go long before you hear about some cop, somewhere, being ambushed or attacked. Often resulting in that officer being killed or maimed.

    Does the training need to be updated for the Law Dogs of today? You betcha. But, the biggest thing that needs to be updated is society. We've lost our respect for them. And for each other.
     

    DoubleDuty

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    I believe part of the problem is in how Law Enforcement is being labeled as "the enemy" and being attacked in so many different ways and from so many different angles. You can't go long before you hear about some cop, somewhere, being ambushed or attacked. Often resulting in that officer being killed or maimed.

    Does the training need to be updated for the Law Dogs of today? You betcha. But, the biggest thing that needs to be updated is society. We've lost our respect for them. And for each other.
    And that is on the worthless msm
     

    Byrd666

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    Part of it, but not all. Most of that starts in the home, with the parents and siblings. Monkey see, monkey do. Without a doubt MSM and politics are guilty for some of it.
     

    F350-6

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    I agree with Byrd. The political climate has made the police the target of many things. From violence to lawsuits. The result is an us vs. them mentality and the primary focus becomes going home safe at night. If that's the first thought every time the car door opens, then you're not really focused on what's going on, just focused on not getting shot.

    The climate also means that many qualified candidates likely are not interested in joining the force, and many qualified officers are looking for ways to leave or move to a safer/smaller location. That leaves job openings that need to be filled by the politician types. (the same politicians who will later hang the officer if the media thinks he did something wrong).

    At this point it's kind of become a self fulfilling prophecy.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I...The political climate has made the police the target of many things. From violence to lawsuits. The result is an us vs. them mentality and the primary focus becomes going home safe at night. If that's the first thought every time the car door opens, then you're not really focused on what's going on, just focused on not getting shot.

    The climate also means that many qualified candidates likely are not interested in joining the force, and many qualified officers are looking for ways to leave or move to a safer/smaller location. That leaves job openings that need to be filled by the politician types...

    So, how does this change? In some areas, LE agencies have nearly 50 years of proactive policing policies; everything from catch the speeders to gang units and more. Because it’s a patchwork quilt of laws and jurisdiction.

    There’s plenty of data for national policing agencies, whether it’s Mexican Federales or German Polizei. The question is whether local LE, a development of the town marshal, has outlived its usefulness.

    Me, I call 911 for fire or medical, and sometimes get LE responding, not because they are qualified, but because they are available to ‘validate’ the need for fire/EMS.

    That’s not what I need, nor why I called, but meantime someone is dying.
     
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    It's 100% in the training.

    Stop the scare tactics. Not everyone is out to kill you. Convenience store clerks get shot at more than Police. Going home safe is not the most important priority. Spend more time on hand to hand skills.

    "Militarization of the Police" is the problem. Referring to regular citizens as "civilians". The Police are not fighting a war. Mindset needs to change.
     

    pronstar

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    I dunno how the screen officer candidates here, but I can share some insight into how the LAPD has “evolved” based on discussions with friends on the force.

    Not too long ago, they wanted people who have life experiences. Ex-military and the like we’re preferred.

    Today, they actually want people with no life experiences, who “haven’t developed bad habits”.

    Today’s candidates are borderline regarded, and the washout rates would be much higher but they keep lowering the bar to allow these people on the force.

    Many candidates have a lack of basic interpersonal skills to deal with people and situations. They don’t revert to their training, they freeze and/or sit back and wait for experienced backup. They simply don’t know how to think on their feet.

    Again, this perspective is what was shared with me. YMMV


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