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  • Moonpie

    Omnipotent Potentate for hire.
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    Gunz are icky.
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    zackmars

    Free 1911 refinishing
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    Which shows a great ignorance of the weapons actually used in the large majority civilian self defense encounters.

    Heck, given the choice artillery trumps rifles. By your logic, we should not worry about anything that isn't artillery. Silly.

    Man what a... post.

    Nobody willingly goes into a fight with only a handgun, people who have to fight use rifles.

    We as civilians use hanguns because #1, rifles are too bulky, and too obvious
    #2, getting into combat isn't a constant threat in our day to day lives
    #3, when we do get into a fight, a pistol is quite often more than enough.

    That doesn't change the fact that handguns suck to fight with.

    What do you not get? This isn't rocket surgery.
     

    oldag

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    We as civilians use hanguns because #1, rifles are too bulky, and too obvious
    #2, getting into combat isn't a constant threat in our day to day lives
    #3, when we do get into a fight, a pistol is quite often more than enough.
    So they why do you keep harping on rifles? Sheesh. Broken record.
     

    TheMailMan

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    Nope. Initial ww1 loading was 124 grains. Early into ww2 the germans transistions to a lightweight (less than 90 grain) load to save resources.

    Europe had been using 124gr for pistols forever, 115gr became a thing mainly for use with SMG's.

    And when the wonder nine revolution hit the US, it was with 124gr, obviously 115gr was super common, but using practice/plinking ammo as the "standard" just because its what's common is purposely missing the forrest for the trees

    Back in the dark ages when I was behind the gun counter there were no 124 gr loads. It was all 115.
     

    TheMailMan

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    The idea that ".45acp started out better" is common, but it still cost more, had more recoil, and the difference between .45acp and 9mm fmj, while more obvious than 45 jhp vs 9 jhp, is very minor. Neither expand and both have great penetration

    Add in the fact .45 is more expensive, more recoil, less capacity, and I'd still give the nod to 9mm.

    Ballistically, no one pistol caliber is better than the other. FMJ or JHP.

    The real factors are, once again, capacity, recoil, cost.

    You are getting wrapped up in ballistics for no reason. Handguns suck for fighting, thats why people who fight carry rifles, not .45's with JHP's

    My cost for 9mm and .45 ACP are so close that it takes a 1000 rounds to notice the real difference.
     

    toddnjoyce

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