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  • kbaxter60

    "Gig 'Em!"
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    Jan 23, 2019
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    The Elio is never going to happen.
    Sigh. You are probably right. It's too bad. For a limited mission, it made decent sense. Like I said earlier, it's mostly personal needs that define what is "best". We had a sailboat at a marina across the state border from us. We went a lot and the gas adds up. If the Elio mileage numbers held up, we could have gone round trip for about a gallon. It was over two gallons, even in my pretty-economical Ford Focus...

    I would sure hate to work in their marketing group. And keep on churning out repeat emails ("what colors do you want to see?").
    Gun Zone Deals
     

    popper

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    Just politically driven by the epa and greenies! Wind elec. the same, Pickens got out of them but tried to take over distribution where the real money is.
     

    oldag

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    A couple of questions...

    Who decides "before its time"?

    Lots of tech is taxpayer funded:

    NASA, think the 60s space race
    Military tech: lots of ahead of its time there, missiles, fire control systems, aircraft, ships and subs, etc.
    Had you ever worked in the DOD industry, you would know that the technology in armed forces equipment lags the rest of industry more often than not.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Had you ever worked in the DOD industry, you would know that the technology in armed forces equipment lags the rest of industry more often than not.
    Well, I'm just going to disagree. I am a contractor for DoD contractor. The taxpayers pay the bills. Lockheed Martin developed the F117 on Taxpayer money. Same with the F22, and now the 35. Leading edge technology. DoD contractors developed the Patriot missile system. GPS? Thank you DoD contractors
     

    Pops1955

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    Mar 10, 2015
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    A couple of questions...

    Who decides "before its time"?

    Lots of tech is taxpayer funded:

    NASA, think the 60s space race
    Military tech: lots of ahead of its time there, missiles, fire control systems, aircraft, ships and subs, etc.

    Well the market should. Just so happens that the demand for NASA was declared one of national security due to the soviet entry ahead of the US.

    Military is about national defense. A very important expenditure of tax dollars.

    Even back to the days of rail the tech was developed. National distribution was considered essential so it was heavily incentivized.

    Alternative energy programs were designed to wean us gas guzzlers off the carbon teat. We were running out of fossil fuels, or so they told us. BUT has the earth just stopped making fossil fuels? If so how have we found more. Enough to become energy self sufficient and are now exporting again. Ever wonder why we were running out and now we are not. Lots of possible answers and all are probably partially correct.

    Ever watched a wind mill field closely? Many not running. Why? Lots are broke. Does not pay to fix 'em. That part is not subsidized. Wonder who built all those new transmission lines? Your tax $ from Obamas infrastructure projects.

    All I am saying is that the day will come. I just do not want my country to go broke making it happen sooner than later.

    Was the great tech from the space race worth it. You bet. Is the great tech from and for our national defense worth it. Absolutely.

    Achieving the stars with side benefits. YUP. I am in. Dominating our enemies with superior fire power and capabilities . I am all in. Where is the benefit of going broke to achieve perceived benefit of solar, wind and EVs? I like driving them as much as the next guy. But for the real costs we have all paid I would rather have my old GTO back.
     

    HKShooter65

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    1. Maybe I'm getting senile and my memory is failing me.
    2. Maybe the Tesla Model 3s price fell $5,000 since yesterday.
    3. Maybe both.

    I've been lusting for one.
    That 0-60 MPH in about 3 seconds is just unearthly.
    We've all experienced the rush of SW Airlines' 737 exhilarating takeoff from Love field's short runways, right???
    It's the same except that I'm in full control and can do it repetitively all day long.

    I swear the price was 60k yesterday.
    Today it's $54,990

    https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery
     
    Last edited:

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
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    Nov 22, 2011
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    I think the same folks (Munro & Associates) have done some complete disassembly videos that are pretty shocking. Tesla has some great tech for using electricity to make things move. However, it seems they have very little institutional knowledge about how to actually design and build fully functional cars. They don't understand all the edge cases and how things should be designed to handle abnormal situations. They don't know how to manufacture efficiently. That's knowledge that takes decades of experience to accrue and infuse into the culture of a company. Being really, really smart helps but isn't a guaranteed fast track to doing it right. They do a lot of stuff flat wrong in ways that would make any experienced automotive engineer cringe.

    The video at that link is a good introduction. Here some videos after more disassembly. This is real "The Emperor has no clothes" stuff.

    Here's a short one.



    And here's a long discussion, if you really want to get way into the weeds.

     

    pronstar

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    Munro had somewhat nicer things to say about the Model S, with most of the praise going to the electronics and drivetrain.

    They definitely have a long way to go...we’ll see how they fare when they have newfound competition from carmakers like Porsche, who actually know how to build cars for a profit (and have industry-leading margins).

    I’ve recently driven a loaded Model 3 around our building a few times...I’d love to have one LOL

    Edit:
    Model 3
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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    txinvestigator

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    Last night I picked up a copy of Motor Trend. A magazine that Tesla fans insist is anti-Tesla because Tesla doesn't advertise in the magazine. In an article titled "Head of the Class" where they compared the BMW 330i, the Genesis G70 and the Tesla 3, Tesla won.

    Some of the comments are "a revolutionary driving experience", " a clean a tidy design that makes it look elegant". Of course they raved about the accelaration, "proving it wasn't a one-trick pony, it bested the BMW on our figure-eight loop despite wearing all-season tires."

    They list the range of this model at 310 miles.
     

    oldag

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    Well, I'm just going to disagree. I am a contractor for DoD contractor. The taxpayers pay the bills. Lockheed Martin developed the F117 on Taxpayer money. Same with the F22, and now the 35. Leading edge technology. DoD contractors developed the Patriot missile system. GPS? Thank you DoD contractors

    Well who else do you think would develop the F117 or F22???? Walmart?? :roflsmile:

    That leap of logic is simply hilarious.

    Most of the "technology" in a weapons system is 10-15 years old when the system is put into production. Takes that long for DOD to move from concept to final design. Perhaps someone needs to understand the difference in the technology in a system and the system itself.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Well who else do you think would develop the F117 or F22???? Walmart?? :roflsmile:

    That leap of logic is simply hilarious.

    Most of the "technology" in a weapons system is 10-15 years old when the system is put into production. Takes that long for DOD to move from concept to final design. Perhaps someone needs to understand the difference in the technology in a system and the system itself.
    Whatever. You have no argument but to laugh, ok. The fact is taxpayer funded it. Tech isn't old just because it takes a while to develop it.

    You are being contradictory
     

    oldag

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    Whatever. You have no argument but to laugh, ok. The fact is taxpayer funded it. Tech isn't old just because it takes a while to develop it.

    You are being contradictory
    You quote the exception to try and prove the rule.

    Armed forces weaponry (aside from personal weapons) development will ALWAYS be funded by taxpayers. The only market for an AMRAAM is the government. Why would private industry EVER spend its own funds to develop an air to air missile?

    I was involved in the development of what later became the current advanced Sidewinder. We were using "technology" (e.g., alloys, materials, control systems) that had been in use for private industry for decades. The manufacturing processes used were old.

    No sound reason exists for taxpayers to fund wind turbines or solar panels. This was the point someone accurately made much earlier in this thread, which you disputed.

    Let the market drive the use of renewables. If the renewable generation technology cannot stand on its own two feet without taxpayer subsidies, it should not be deployed.
     

    pronstar

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    Last night I picked up a copy of Motor Trend. A magazine that Tesla fans insist is anti-Tesla because Tesla doesn't advertise in the magazine. In an article titled "Head of the Class" where they compared the BMW 330i, the Genesis G70 and the Tesla 3, Tesla won.

    Teslarati fanbois can be idiots...Tesla has an advertising/marketing budget of $0.
    This is public knowledge, and quite noteworthy.

    They don’t do any advertising or marketing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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