Hurley's Gold

Private Sales and Universal Background Checks - gaining momentum

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  • cporfe

    Active Member
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 90%
    9   1   0
    Jun 20, 2018
    362
    46
    Elgin
    First, a quote from the Giffords Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence:
    "Though more than 90% of the American public supports background checks for all gun sales, a dangerous and deadly loophole in federal gun laws still exempts unlicensed sellers from having to perform any background check whatsoever before selling a firearm. More." (BS in my opinion but opinions are like butts, everyone has one)

    And this: "See site."

    <NOTE: Quotes above edited by moderator benenglish to comply with site copyright policy.>

    Jeff Knox, noted 2A activist, wrote in a 2006 Op Ed on "Ammoland" pretty much predicting this turn of events in his piece on how to defend personal sales and how to defend against using the non-existent "Gun Show Loop Hole". "Title 18, Section 922 of the U.S. Code, the 1968 Gun Control Act, covers sales and transfer of guns. The law forbids transfers between residents of different states except through an FFL in the buyer's state. Of course it is also illegal for a federally “prohibited person” – a felon, fugitive, someone dishonorably discharged from the service, etc. – to purchase a firearm from anyone, FFL dealer or not. If the seller has any indication that the prospective buyer is a “prohibited person,” selling the gun is a crime. It is also illegal for anyone to purchase a firearm on behalf of someone else – even if that someone else could legally purchase it himself – and a seller can again be held criminally responsible if they had any indication that such a “straw” transaction was taking place. But not all sellers are that prudent. A foolish few think they are “safe” if they take a “don't ask, don't tell” approach, avoiding any question of the buyers’ legal status and studiously not noticing if the buyer says something that might indicate ineligibility. They delude themselves."

    I've read many posts in this forum basically stating that if you keep your head in the sand, you can't be held criminally responsible. Or that if the buyer looks okay and has cash, take it and run. Or the time honored a BOS is bullsh*t and won't help your in criminal court. All could be true. But, no one ever mentions that the civil court doesn't have the exacting standards of a criminal court. A law school professor I once had said to sue everyone remotely connected to an incident and let the trier-of-fact (judge) decide who stays in the suit.

    Ask Remington, now the owner of Bushmaster, how that civil lawsuit is going on the Sandy Hook school shooting. It's costing them a lot of money to fight what should not be their involvement in the suit, but the court is letting it go forward. I wonder if Remington will settle out of court eventually to save money?

    Think you'll have the resources to fight any civil suit against you if you sell the handgun used by some dirtbag to kill some kids? I can't and will perform "due diligence" if I ever sell another firearm on this forum. That includes using a BOS developed by a pro-2A lawyer to cover all the bases of me meeting the US Code and proving, at least I hope, to a civil jury that I did due diligence.

    Who knows, you may never be sued. And you may never be audited by the IRS. But then I've been audited three times, two because they made a mistake and once because I gave to much cash to charity for what I earned. I'm going to try and keep the stats as they are.
    Gun Zone Deals
     
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    WT_Foxtrot

    Well-Known
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 23, 2019
    1,305
    96
    North Texas
    Unless you do your own background check, a BOS is just that without the "O".....BS. Just ties you to the buyer in case anything goes south and nothing else. If you sell a gun with a BOS and some dude shoots someone, you're not liable, perfectly legal.....but how are you any less liable than you would be without a BOS? What "due diligence" that you mention are you performing exactly? Bill of sale does nothing and proves nothing except your own involvement in anything that should come afterward.

    Use your own personal judgment within the law....while we still can. Our own judgment (see:freedom) is under attack, even from those in our own ranks.

    Never understand why people shun freedom like they do........
     

    HKShooter65

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Yes, TL.

    Universal background checks are supported my most of my friend gun owners.

    I have mixed feelings.
    It'll stifle my joy, as I view gun shows as a swap meet.

    I'm dating myself to point out that I remember when FFL holders could not do business at gun shows. It was 100% individual to individual 2A right demonstration.
     

    V-Tach

    Watching While the Sheep Graze
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    7   0   0
    Sep 30, 2012
    8,895
    96
    Texas
    Change the wording from unlicensed sellers to private individuals and the answer will be different..........
     

    DoubleDuty

    TGT Addict
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    2   0   0
    Feb 9, 2019
    3,679
    96
    DFW
    Just another infringement on our rights. Criminals won't be getting the background checks they don't get now.
     
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    Dawico

    Uncoiled
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Oct 15, 2009
    38,007
    96
    Lampasas, Texas
    I would rather suffer the consequences of too much freedom than not enough.

    Evil people are going to do evil things. These types of things aren't going to stop them.

    Freedom hating individuals should just leave our country and live somewhere that thinks it's the government's job to take care of them.

    I support the 2A but.......

    But nothing.
     

    Sam7sf

    TGT Addict
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    10   0   0
    Apr 13, 2018
    12,466
    96
    Texas
    Automatic lie. Oregon state police release their bg check information. People support sb941? That must be why some counties only had single digit percentages on how many bg checks were done using that method. Lies. They always lie.
     

    Sam7sf

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    10   0   0
    Apr 13, 2018
    12,466
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    Also, the NICS is broken. People are delayed and denied wrongfully all the time.
    I’m one of the lucky ones I guess. I don’t get it. I was in a poc state so my first Texas 4473 this last weekend was the same. Instant approval.

    So far the horror stories of nics haven’t hit me. Not sure what to say to those who do have delays.
     
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    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,747
    96
    Texas
    I've read many posts in this forum basically stating that if you keep your head in the sand, you can't be held criminally responsible. Or that if the buyer looks okay and has cash, take it and run. Or the time honored a BOS is bullsh*t and won't help your in criminal court. All could be true. But, no one ever mentions that the civil court doesn't have the exacting standards of a criminal court. A law school professor I once had said to sue everyone remotely connected to an incident and let the trier-of-fact (judge) decide who stays in the suit.

    Feel free to post all the folks who have made anonymous sales and have been sued.

    Feel free to explain how someone who made an anonymous sale was caught. For example, a Ruger SP101 I sold to some dude at a gun show, no ID, no BOS, nothing. How do I get ID'd to be served?

    You see, that is the whole point of anonymous sales, you will never be found.
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,541
    96
    Dallas
    If I was that afraid of hypothetical “what if” scenarios, or a civil lawsuit “because anybody can sue anyone for anything”, I’d never leave my house...


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