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Private Sales and Universal Background Checks - gaining momentum

Discussion in 'Politics' started by cporfe, May 24, 2019.

  1. cporfe

    cporfe Member

    Jun 20, 2018
    First, a quote from the Giffords Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence:
    "Though more than 90% of the American public supports background checks for all gun sales, a dangerous and deadly loophole in federal gun laws still exempts unlicensed sellers from having to perform any background check whatsoever before selling a firearm. More." (BS in my opinion but opinions are like butts, everyone has one)

    And this: "See site."

    <NOTE: Quotes above edited by moderator benenglish to comply with site copyright policy.>

    Jeff Knox, noted 2A activist, wrote in a 2006 Op Ed on "Ammoland" pretty much predicting this turn of events in his piece on how to defend personal sales and how to defend against using the non-existent "Gun Show Loop Hole". "Title 18, Section 922 of the U.S. Code, the 1968 Gun Control Act, covers sales and transfer of guns. The law forbids transfers between residents of different states except through an FFL in the buyer's state. Of course it is also illegal for a federally “prohibited person” – a felon, fugitive, someone dishonorably discharged from the service, etc. – to purchase a firearm from anyone, FFL dealer or not. If the seller has any indication that the prospective buyer is a “prohibited person,” selling the gun is a crime. It is also illegal for anyone to purchase a firearm on behalf of someone else – even if that someone else could legally purchase it himself – and a seller can again be held criminally responsible if they had any indication that such a “straw” transaction was taking place. But not all sellers are that prudent. A foolish few think they are “safe” if they take a “don't ask, don't tell” approach, avoiding any question of the buyers’ legal status and studiously not noticing if the buyer says something that might indicate ineligibility. They delude themselves."

    I've read many posts in this forum basically stating that if you keep your head in the sand, you can't be held criminally responsible. Or that if the buyer looks okay and has cash, take it and run. Or the time honored a BOS is bullsh*t and won't help your in criminal court. All could be true. But, no one ever mentions that the civil court doesn't have the exacting standards of a criminal court. A law school professor I once had said to sue everyone remotely connected to an incident and let the trier-of-fact (judge) decide who stays in the suit.

    Ask Remington, now the owner of Bushmaster, how that civil lawsuit is going on the Sandy Hook school shooting. It's costing them a lot of money to fight what should not be their involvement in the suit, but the court is letting it go forward. I wonder if Remington will settle out of court eventually to save money?

    Think you'll have the resources to fight any civil suit against you if you sell the handgun used by some dirtbag to kill some kids? I can't and will perform "due diligence" if I ever sell another firearm on this forum. That includes using a BOS developed by a pro-2A lawyer to cover all the bases of me meeting the US Code and proving, at least I hope, to a civil jury that I did due diligence.

    Who knows, you may never be sued. And you may never be audited by the IRS. But then I've been audited three times, two because they made a mistake and once because I gave to much cash to charity for what I earned. I'm going to try and keep the stats as they are.

    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2019
    digger likes this.
  2. toddnjoyce

    toddnjoyce TGT Addict

    Sep 27, 2017
    TL; DR.
  3. WT_Foxtrot

    WT_Foxtrot Active Member

    Jan 23, 2019
    North Texas
    Unless you do your own background check, a BOS is just that without the "O".....BS. Just ties you to the buyer in case anything goes south and nothing else. If you sell a gun with a BOS and some dude shoots someone, you're not liable, perfectly legal.....but how are you any less liable than you would be without a BOS? What "due diligence" that you mention are you performing exactly? Bill of sale does nothing and proves nothing except your own involvement in anything that should come afterward.

    Use your own personal judgment within the law....while we still can. Our own judgment (see:freedom) is under attack, even from those in our own ranks.

    Never understand why people shun freedom like they do........
    jordanmills, TX OMFS and roadrunner like this.
  4. ZX9RCAM

    ZX9RCAM Over the Rainbow bridge... TGT Supporter

    May 14, 2008
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    Didn't we just do this...
    SQLGeek, Maverick44, Charlie and 4 others like this.
  5. HKShooter65

    HKShooter65 Well-Known

    Yes, TL.

    Universal background checks are supported my most of my friend gun owners.

    I have mixed feelings.
    It'll stifle my joy, as I view gun shows as a swap meet.

    I'm dating myself to point out that I remember when FFL holders could not do business at gun shows. It was 100% individual to individual 2A right demonstration.
    jordanmills and TheMailMan like this.
  6. HKShooter65

    HKShooter65 Well-Known

    People are appropriately afraid of doing it wrong.
    Banter is one of the infinite sources of energy.
  7. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

    May 28, 2008
    Ft Worth, TX
    blah, blah, blah, bill of sale derp derp derp.

    Holy crap
  8. Bithabus

    Bithabus ! TGT Supporter

    Aug 17, 2010
    So what's the point of this?
  9. V-Tach

    V-Tach TGT Addict Forum Sponsor

    Sep 30, 2012
    Change the wording from unlicensed sellers to private individuals and the answer will be different..........
    jordanmills and TheMailMan like this.
  10. DoubleDuty

    DoubleDuty Active Member

    Feb 9, 2019
    Just another infringement on our rights. Criminals won't be getting the background checks they don't get now.

    Last edited: May 25, 2019
    TheMailMan, ZX9RCAM and V-Tach like this.

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