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Need advice on a load

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  • deemus

    my mama says I'm special
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    Generally I'm not at a loss on what I want to do. But my range trip today has me stumped. Shot five groups of test loads. Two are interesting. If it wasn't a 6.5 Creedmoor, it wouldn't be a big deal. But I want to be as accurate as possible. FYI, I always ignore one flyer in each group.

    Shot 4 bullets into a .731" group. Two literally through the same hole. It looks like three shots. In most instances a 3/4" group would make me very happy.

    1ffc4ca08da47aec1df4626e518ef30d.jpg


    But I have another group that is making me second guess myself. I shot a 4 shot group into a 1.41" group. Normally I would go with #1 above. However, group two includes three of the four shots in a .15" group. Two flyers?

    e7c39be1992c0350954fa4ade8baef61.jpg
    Target Sports
     
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    Are you weighing the bullets into lots?

    Say, 5.56. Usually three weights in the box. Something like .355 gram, 354 gram, 353 gram.

    Separate them into groups. Label the rounds on the box or bag by projectile weight. Test each lot to see which one works the best with the powder charge you're using.

    Two or three different weights of bullets won't fly the same compared to each other.
     

    Dawico

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    Rifle? Scope? Shooting setup? Range conditions? Powder? Charge? Brass? Bullet? COL?

    Did you feel any fliers?

    In generel, yes, you could have put three together and had two fliers. The opposite is true too, you could have had three lucky shots.

    More info is helpful. Not as helpful as more testing though but maybe we can give some insight.
     

    Dawico

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    Are you weighing the bullets into lots?

    Say, 5.56. Usually three weights in the box. Something like .355 gram, 354 gram, 353 gram.

    Separate them into groups. Label the rounds on the box or bag by projectile weight. Test each lot to see which one works the best with the powder charge you're using.

    Two or three different weights of bullets won't fly the same compared to each other.
    My testing has proven otherwise.

    A few tenths of a GRAIN (because 'Merica) has had no measurable effects on group size at 100 yards.
     
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    My testing has proven otherwise.

    A few tenths of a GRAIN (because 'Merica) has had no measurable effects on group size at 100 yards.

    I've had an opposite experience. Before projectiles are stuck in a case. They're separated by weight into lots. With three weight groups of bullets. One weight group will perform better with the given charge over the others.

    The more identical the round is to each other. The less variations in the grand scheme of things.

    100 yards was the test distance. Rifle on a bag. 2# trigger. Nikon P223 scope.
     

    Dawico

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    I've had an opposite experience. Before projectiles are stuck in a case. They're separated by weight into lots. With three weight groups of bullets. One weight group will perform better with the given charge over the others.

    The more identical the round is to each other. The less variations in the grand scheme of things.

    100 yards was the test distance. Rifle on a bag. 2# trigger. Nikon P223 scope.
    While I agree that the goal is to make every round identical, in reality I find it makes little difference.

    Now I am speaking of quality brass and match bullets. We are talking less than 0.2% difference in weight though.

    Maybe that is identical enough for practical purposes at short distances.
     
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    While I agree that the goal is to make every round identical, in reality I find it makes little difference.

    Now I am speaking of quality brass and match bullets. We are talking less than 0.2% difference in weight though.

    Maybe that is identical enough for practical purposes at short distances.


    I bought the Midway house brand bullets. I think they're called varmint bombs or something. They're on the cheaper side. I have thousands of them.

    I agree. If you buy some top shelf stuff like Sierra. Weight between bullets will be proportional to what you paid.
     

    deemus

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    Varying powder charges of H-4350. All else is the same. New Star brass, COL, 129g SST. CCI primers. Savage Axis XP. I took the Weaver scope off. It was awful. Had a Zeiss that's been sitting in my safe for years. It's crazy better.

    Yes, def had at least one flier. I may need to load these two charges again. Not thrilled as it was cold and wet.
     
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    Varying powder charges of H-4350. All else is the same. New Star brass, COL, 129g SST. CCI primers. Savage Axis XP. I took the Weaver scope off. It was awful. Had a Zeiss that's been sitting in my safe for years. It's crazy better.

    Yes, def had at least one flier. I may need to load these two charges again. Not thrilled as it was cold and wet.

    Are the flyers before a dirty barrel or after? If it's before. Run five rounds through a clean barrel before you test. If it's after. Bore snake it after three rounds and test.
     

    jrbfishn

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    I'd wait for better weather to test again.
    Too cold and wet to sit and try to punch bugholes
    I'd have been shivering and tense.
    Same here. I would reload and retest later when I was more comfortable and the weather was closer to what you would normally shoot.
    I haven't had much variation out of the same box because of the bullet weights but have with as little as .3 gr of powder. Especially with H4350.

    Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     
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    Or turn the rifle sideways. Grab the barrel that sticks past the forearm with gloves and let it warm up your hands.

    Cope with it. Understand your winter performance. I dog dare you to develop a 'winter' round. Something you can cut the hole you want. Even if it's cold.
     

    SloppyShooter

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    Hell, I don't have much to contribute here, but.....me being me, and the thread title,... flush it.

    Seriously, barrel conditions and temperature are relative to extreme accuracy. Think of it this way, it's even worse in low temperatures. The first shot heats the barrel, well.....if you wanna get anal about shot groups, then it's a factor.

    You have to look at that crap like scientific research, the second shot shot is never going to be the first.

    While not as important in modern rifles as black powder ones, I always want my gun zeroed in on the first shot, because my focus is hunting and not paper punching.
     
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    Hell, I don't have much to contribute here, but.....me being me, and the thread title,... flush it.

    Seriously, barrel conditions and temperature are relative to extreme accuracy. Think of it this way, it's even worse in low temperatures. The first shot heats the barrel, well.....if you wanna get anal about shot groups, then it's a factor.

    You have to look at that crap like scientific research, the second shot shot is never going to be the first.

    While not as important in modern rifles as black powder ones, I always want my gun zeroed in on the first shot, because my focus is hunting and not paper punching.

    You are correct. Barrel temperature matters. But it only effects it for a few rounds. Then it heats rapidly.

    Say you're in sub zero temps and haven't fired. Then think of being in summer when it's 108°.

    That's where developing the load comes into play. What shoots the best out a colder then average barrel? It won't be the same charge as the summer.
     

    deemus

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    Hell, I don't have much to contribute here, but.....me being me, and the thread title,... flush it.

    Seriously, barrel conditions and temperature are relative to extreme accuracy. Think of it this way, it's even worse in low temperatures. The first shot heats the barrel, well.....if you wanna get anal about shot groups, then it's a factor.

    You have to look at that crap like scientific research, the second shot shot is never going to be the first.

    While not as important in modern rifles as black powder ones, I always want my gun zeroed in on the first shot, because my focus is hunting and not paper punching.

    Irony. The third and fifth shot hit in the same hole as the second shot. But the barrel was already warm from the last group. Warm, but allowed to cool a few minutes. So not hot.
     

    deemus

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    FYI, thanks for the feedback. I loaded up 5 more rounds of each and will test them this week. I think I'll let the barrel cool more between rounds this time.
     
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