Houston police: 4 officers wounded, 2 of 3 suspects dead

[leVieux]

If you all want to see a real LEO caused TRAGEDY, just Google "Adolph Grimes III" ! https://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/new_orleans_cops_involved_in_k.html

 

[Hoji]

Anyone notice anything missing from the recovered property?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Maybe a .357?


Why are so many areas not filled in?

 

[AustinN4]

View attachment 162553 Anyone notice anything missing from the recovered property?

As was said here early this morning, no .357.

 

[sharkey]

NO! HELL NO !

We are American CITIZENS, and PRESUMED INNOCENT.

Anyone bursting through my door is going to get a helllovalot of ordnance, unless I can see marked LEO vehicles.

"Forced entries" are out of control. Overzealous prosecutors are out of control.

And, I am a big LEO supporter. My youngest is a police detective.

If we hope to succeed in the "War on Drugs", we must man-up and go after the ultimate source, the U.S. "recreational users". Yes, the teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc whose drug buys provide the fuel for the entire drug enterprise. Dealers, smugglers, & bought cops are SYMPTOMS !

leVieux

Hell no to what? Yep, I agree. We are American Citizens and Presumed innocent.
Is HPD's search warrant in question? If so, it is the first I have heard of it. On what grounds?

What happens if you don't see Police cars but they are there? You just overlooked them because police were busting down your door. Of course now we are dealing with things that do not have a high probability of occurring. Do you sell drugs to others outside your home? Do you have cocaine or MJ currently in your home?

I agree that we should go after the users AND the sellers but many would disagree with you. Many would say we can't win it so we should just legalize it. I am sure we can go back to a legalize drugs thread and spend days discussing it BUT this ain't that thread.

Criminals dealing in contraband will continue to face search warrants being served under the 4A of the Constitution. I guess you'll can write your legislators and demand an amendment to change that. What does your youngest say? Should we just not go after drug users and sellers because the risk is too high to innocent life, which the couple in this case has not shown to be innocent citizens just minding their own business?

 

[sharkey]

Some arrests/warrants are legit and necessary; some aren't. This thread has meandered around the subject of whether drug laws were violated in this instance, and the probity of those drug laws existing in the first place. Assuming those premises are affirmed, we've wondered whether this particular incident was legit, necessary, and well executed.

I only mentioned my arrest and subsequent Section 1983 class action in the first place to refute your statement guessing that a fucked up warrant wouldn't happen to me because no CI made a buy at my door, your smart-assed point being that this only happens to criminals. No CI or drugs was involved in my warrant/arrest but ridiculous over-reach with no shred of PC of a "crime" that shouldn't be a crime in the first place (mala prohibita vs. mala en se) WAS involved. It does happen. It did happen. Consider the themes compared.

I asked for comparisons to this event and I don't see any. So I was being a smart ass because I mentioned the obvious? You were the one who stated you like to piss of the police. MOST law abiding people do not have to worry about local LE running a no knock warrant, they just don't

You can wonder whether this warrant was legit or not but your opinion does not matter. The warrant was legit and it was signed by a judge, that is what we call a fact. We already talke about how PC was established which AGAIN shows this is nothing like your false arrest. That AGAIN is a fact.

As I said to someone else, just say you are in the no knock warrant camp and call it a day. You can have that opinion but that is not currently how things are done. CI buys are done all the time to get PC. Arrest warrants and search warrants to include no knock warrants are legal and signed by judges all the time.

How about we stick with inconsistencies in this case and not just a whole bunch of people complaining that they don't agree with something that is clearly lawful. I can't explain why Tuttle's revolver didn't show up on an inventory sheet but I am not part of the ongoing investigation so if I don't know, I'm not gonna talk out my a** like others have done here.

How is this a cover up? How did the entry team f*ck it up? Where did the case officer lie? Where did the neighbor lie? Where did the CI lie? What do they have to gain by lying? These are all the things you'll are implying so provide me some evidence that supports that.

 

[leVieux]

Hell no to what? Yep, I agree. We are American Citizens and Presumed innocent.
Is HPD's search warrant in question? If so, it is the first I have heard of it. On what grounds?

What happens if you don't see Police cars but they are there? You just overlooked them because police were busting down your door. Of course now we are dealing with things that do not have a high probability of occurring. Do you sell drugs to others outside your home? Do you have cocaine or MJ currently in your home?

I agree that we should go after the users AND the sellers but many would disagree with you. Many would say we can't win it so we should just legalize it. I am sure we can go back to a legalize drugs thread and spend days discussing it BUT this ain't that thread.

Criminals dealing in contraband will continue to face search warrants being served under the 4A of the Constitution. I guess you'll can write your legislators and demand an amendment to change that. What does your youngest say? Should we just not go after drug users and sellers because the risk is too high to innocent life, which the couple in this case has not shown to be innocent citizens just minding their own business?

"Youngest" says that violent criminal home invasions by thugs impersonating LEO's are way up.

Now a days, he only goes for his own warrants, which are virtually all for "felon in possession".

Three years ago, a friend of ours was killed in a home invasion in a quiet small town.

leVieux

 

[sharkey]

"Youngest" says that violent criminal home invasions by thugs impersonating LEO's are way up.

Now a days, he only goes for his own warrants, which are virtually all for "felon in possession".

Three years ago, a friend of ours was killed in a home invasion in a quiet small town.

leVieux

Fair enough. I don't doubt home invasions are on the rise. Heck I got a gun right by me as we type this, living in E. FtW.
Now we can argue what your son does. Many here have stated the no knock warrants should only be done for violent criminals. Is a felon in possession of a handgun really violent? Let's pretend your son never does no knock warrants but he goes to serve a warrant and a resident inside the house (not the felon) doesn't hear or believe those outside are real LE and as they enter the resident shoots them? What about that as a possibility? Could that probably happen?

My point is that we can't eliminate all risk when LE goes after criminals. Serving a warrant is always going to have high risk, period. Something I haven't seen mentioned here is why did Tuttle have such quick access to a firearm? One option is that like many here are switched on individuals that understand about home invasions BUT we really are a small percentage of the population. The other option is that dope dealers are quite aware that someone might try to rob their stach and they are usually armed. Which makes more sense?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I don't think anybody questioned his quick access to a gun because most here are the same.
I have guns stashed all over the house and carry a .380 in my shorts pocket at home.

 

[BillFairbanks]

I bet Acevedo fantasizes about conducting no knock raids on all gun owners in Houston.


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[BillFairbanks]

https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/cour...s-during-noknock-raid-ehraX84ZEUi9Q0___1p4XA/


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[sharkey]

I don't think anybody questioned his quick access to a gun because most here are the same.
I have guns stashed all over the house and carry a .380 in my shorts pocket at home.

As do I. Maybe Tuttle was like us or maybe he wasn't? TGT folks are really a small percentage of the overall populace. If some can imply a rumor he was legally blind, I am gonna imply with a better percentage of probability that Tuttle like most good dope sellers was usually armed.

You might have touched on the disconnect here. We all like to think that others think like ourselves. Some here are assuming Tuttle was just an innocent guy that responded to an illegal home invasion what with the implication they were in plain clothes because that is exactly how they would respond to someone kicking their door in. Sometimes things aren't what they seem and sometimes they are exactly what they seem. The other disconnect is we've all seen different parts of the elephant. Some a lot and some a little and that will definitely shape perspectives. Of course, I'm probably just being a smart ass for pointing that out when actuality I'm just really stupid.

 

[V-Tach]

Many unanswered questions. Only one side/version is being told. I would hope there would be more than just an internal police investigation into this incident as transparency would be in the best interest of the community. Let's wait and see what the investigation(s) reveal. On the face of it....it stinks...imho..

 

[AustinN4]

A good recap:
https://nypost.com/2019/02/05/scapegoats-for-a-drug-war-outrage/

 

[ZX9RCAM]

If indeed this is factual, I'm afraid this could happen to most anyone on this Forum.
Granted, something needs to trigger the police actions, whether they turn out to be true or not .

"Although press coverage of the raid generally portrayed the injured police officers as the victims, that surely is not the way it looked to Tuttle and Nicholas. Amid the noise and chaos, it is plausible that Tuttle did not even realize that the armed men knocking down his door, killing his dog and shooting his wife were police officers. They were not wearing uniforms, and in any case Houston had recently seen a series of home invasions by robbers masquerading as cops."

 

[Hoji]

Has it been pointed out yet that the 911 call that started the ball rolling was from Ms.Nicholas’ mother who was reporting her for using drugs inside the house?

I know there are a lot of you here that are parents and very anti drug.

Let this be a lesson to you to MYOB when it comes to what your adult children do in their own homes.

Unless of course you think having them shot to death for what appears now to be a warrant based on shoddy information at best.

 

[Frank59]

Houston had recently seen a series of home invasions by robbers masquerading as cops."

This is true. Pretty common here in Houston. It really adds a lot more pressure to real time LE trying to do there jobs.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Has it been pointed out yet that the 911 call that started the ball rolling was from Ms.Nicholas’ mother who was reporting her for using drugs inside the house?.

Posts 296 & 297.

 

[Hoji]

Posts 296 & 297.

Thanks. It still bears repeating.

Your children are grown and not living with you? MYOB.

 

[BillFairbanks]

That Houston Police Chief is a SOB


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