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AR-15 Combat/Patrol Rifle (possible build thread)

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  • Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    I've been pondering what exactly makes a rifle effective as a combat weapon, and how much of all the fancy doodads available for the AR-15 platform are just worthless crap we don't need. This is probably going to be a long post, so bear with me. I'm planning on utilizing one of the lowers I've had sitting in the safe for over a year, and figured having as serious fighting rifle (not a range toy or a bench shooting gun) would be a nice thing to have. Especially considering the career I'm getting into (LEO). I already have some thoughts of my own, though NOTHING is set in stone. I'm not even going to consider creating a budget at this point, as I feel that you can create pretty much any AR you want at any price point if you're willing to shop around and potentially compromise slightly.

    To put things in perspective, let me define the sort of situations this rifle could potentially be pressed into. Long shots (anything over 100 yards) is pretty unlikely, though not impossible. Based on what I've seen of shootings, close quarters combat is far more likely. Being able to maneuver this gun around corners, in hallways, and possibly even inside a car would be very beneficial. Having a ton of crap hanging off your gun that weighs it down and serves to get hung up on gear is not something I think you'd want in a gun like this.

    Now, let me also say this. I am not delusional to the reality of this gun. It will more than likely never see action outside of a range, even if I do join a department that will allow me to supply my own firearms. There is a possibility that it will never be used as an actual duty weapon. Being a SHTF/home defense weapon might be all it is. That is ok, it is still something I'd like to have and the process of designing and building it should be pretty interesting.

    Now on to the gun.

    BARREL LENGTH

    This is going to set the stage for the rest of the build. Do I stick with the standard 16" barrel, or do I SBR this thing? I feel anything over 16" adds unnecessary weight and length to the gun, but anything under 10" can possibly cause reliability issues and sacrifices too much of the cartridge's potential. Something like 12" or 14" might be best.

    CALIBER

    What caliber would be best for the barrel length chosen? 5.56 is the standard, but 6.8 SPC has some definite benefits over the 5.56. 300 BLK would have an advantage in shorter barrels as well. Rounds like the .224 Valkyrie, 6.5 Grendel, and any of the big bores like 458 SOCOM are specialist rounds in my opinion and probably wouldn't be great fit for this build. I'm kind of leaning towards 6.8 SPC. The biggest issue I see with it though is that I'd have to buy new magazines for it, and at about $23 for a Pmag, they're not cheap. 300 BLK might be a better option from a simplicity standpoint. 5.56 is pretty much universal though and gets the job done.

    SIGHTS

    This is where things can start going from mild to wild if we let it. There are a TON of options out there, though I am partial to tube style red dot sights. I feel they are faster and generally better than irons for combat, and it seems like a LOT of soldiers and officers agree. Backup irons can always be added to the gun and they are light enough and loe profile enough that they should present no issues. Would a magnifier be beneficial in a combat situation? I have one on my 5.56 AR-15 that can swing to the side when not in use, and it certainly makes hitting 100 yard targets easier, but I can't say I'm happy with how much it obscures my field of view.

    Other options are low powered scopes that can go down to as low as 1x, or even an ACOG, though that is an expensive option and might not be very useful in close range applications.

    ACCESSORIES

    And here's where we can really screw up, or make a good rifle excellent. The KISS method of building a gun is probably the smart thing to do with a gun like this.

    Comp - Loud as hell, but makes follow up shots easier. Do the pros out weigh the cons?

    B.A.D. Lever - Are these things even worth it? They look stupid, but people seem to like them

    Light - I feel this is a necessity due to how useful they can be.

    Laser - I feel this might be unnecessary.

    Fore Grip - An angled fore grip can be a great thing to have. They're lightweight too.

    Handguard - Do I go fancy with a free floating carbon tube, or go simple with a classic polymer guard? Also, M-LOK or Picatinny?

    Stock - Lot of options for this, though most fall into one of two categories. Fixed A2 style stocks, or collapsible. Collapsible would probably be better for tight spaces.

    WEIGHT

    Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. I feel like this gun should be kept under 6 pounds, preferably closer to 5 pounds.

    ________________________________________________________

    What are your thoughts?
     
    Last edited:

    toddnjoyce

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    WEIGHT

    Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. I feel like this gun should be kept under 6 pounds, preferably closer to 5 pounds.

    ________________________________________________________

    What are your thoughts?

    Weight:

    Is that goal for a bare rifle or all kitted up with a full mag?

    Second, you’ve thrown out a lot of considerations. If you’re serious about a potential LE use of this rifle, I’d stick to 5.56 and a 16” OAL barrel + muzzle device. Otherwise, for close combat I’m a fan of 300 BLK or .458 SOCOM.

    Instead of SBR and all that requires, I’d do a 5.56 or 300BLK pistol with a brace. Much more compact and lighter weight. The compromise is platform stability for longer range engagements. A sling will help immensely with this.

    I’m not a fan of compensators/muzzle brakes as they are loud and do little to reduce light signatures at night which can end up hurting more than helping.

    An EOTECH or similar RDS should work fine. I’d opt for something like a PEQ-15 in lieu of BUIS, but that is heavy and takes up space. A different option would be something like a TLR-1 with the remote activation.
     

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    Weight:

    Is that goal for a bare rifle or all kitted up with a full mag?

    Second, you’ve thrown out a lot of considerations. If you’re serious about a potential LE use of this rifle, I’d stick to 5.56 and a 16” OAL barrel + muzzle device. Otherwise, for close combat I’m a fan of 300 BLK or .458 SOCOM.

    Instead of SBR and all that requires, I’d do a 5.56 or 300BLK pistol with a brace. Much more compact and lighter weight. The compromise is platform stability for longer range engagements. A sling will help immensely with this.

    I’m not a fan of compensators/muzzle brakes as they are loud and do little to reduce light signatures at night which can end up hurting more than helping.

    An EOTECH or similar RDS should work fine. I’d opt for something like a PEQ-15 in lieu of BUIS, but that is heavy and takes up space. A different option would be something like a TLR-1 with the remote activation.

    Weight of the rifle with any permanent attachments (sights, light, ect). No ammo or mag (I believe a fully loaded mag is usually around a pound).

    The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about going with 5.56. Should the need arise, that also would allow the sharing of ammo with other officers. I do not know how many agencies use 6.8 or 300 blk, but I'd venture to say they are few and far between.

    I'm not so sure about the brace. They have their place, but I see them as more of a toy than anything. On a gun I might be staking my life on, I'd rather have an actual stock, even if that means paying the piper for an SBR.

    That is a good point about the comp.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Weight of the rifle with any permanent attachments (sights, light, ect). No ammo or mag (I believe a fully loaded mag is usually around a pound).

    The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about going with 5.56. Should the need arise, that also would allow the sharing of ammo with other officers. I do not know how many agencies use 6.8 or 300 blk, but I'd venture to say they are few and far between.

    I'm not so sure about the brace. They have their place, but I see them as more of a toy than anything. On a gun I might be staking my life on, I'd rather have an actual stock, even if that means paying the piper for an SBR.

    That is a good point about the comp.

    What I like about the pistol AR in a confined space for cqb is maneuverability; it gives you more options. A good brace also will allow for a butt stroke to the face in closer quarters without having to deal with a form 1 and the wait, just to be legal.

    But in the end, for a duty weapon you’ll be subject to departmental policy.
     

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    After doing a little looking, I'm kind of questioning whether the 6 lb goal is possible (even without extra attachments like a light). I am happy with the price I ended up with though. This is kind of what I was imagining. Nothing is set in stone though. For the stuff that didn't have it's weight listed, I guessed about what it would be.

    Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced 16" 15” M-LOK guard FDE - $464.99 – 55.04 oz

    Vortex SPARC II - $139.99 – 5.9 oz

    Aero Precision BCG - $125.00 – 11.5 oz

    Magpul AFG-2 - $29.95 – 2.5 oz

    Magpul MOE+ grip - $14.99 – 3.4 oz

    BCM GUNFIGHTER large latch ambi charging handle - $69.99 - "oz

    Magpul ACS Carbine stock FDE - $65.99 – 14.08 oz

    Aero Precision buffer kit $29.99 – 9.8 oz

    Spike's Tactical Lower Parts Kit with Single Stage Trigger - $71.96 –? oz

    Magpul MOE Polymer Trigger Guard FDE - $8.50 –? oz

    Lower Reciever (already own) – 8.35 oz

    Magpul MBUS Gen 2 Flip-Up Front and Rear Sight Set FDE - $93.00 – 2.5 oz



    Price - $1,114.35

    Weight – approx. 116.07 oz – 7.25 lb

    I could shave off about 8 oz if I went with the pencil barrel version of that upper. I believe the biggest issue with those is heat, but extended firefights where enough ammo is used for that to be a problem are rare.
     
    Last edited:

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    After doing a little more looking, If I was to go the pistol/SBR route, that would cut off quite a bit of weight. A 11.5" upper is going to be around 10oz less than a 16" upper, and is only going to give up 200 FPS. That would bring the weight of the rifle down to 6.6 lb.

    Changing the stock to a Magpul CTR (8.8 oz), or a Mission First Tactical Battlelink (5.8 oz) would bring the weight down to 6.3 lb or 6.1 lb respectively. I have a CTR, and it's been a great stock. I don't have any experience with the battlelink, but it has good reviews and people seem to like it. I'm not sure what else I could shave off the gun. The sights are already super light as they are and short of sticking to straight irons, I don't think that weight is going to come down any more. I'm guessing between a light and a sling, it's going to add at least another pound to the gun, bringing it back up to around 7lb empty.
     

    CyberWolf

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    After doing a little looking, I'm kind of questioning whether the 6 lb goal is possible (even without extra attachments like a light). I am happy with the price I ended up with though. This is kind of what I was imagining. Nothing is set in stone though. For the stuff that didn't have it's weight listed, I guessed about what it would be.

    Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced 16" 15” M-LOK guard FDE - $464.99 – 55.04 oz

    Vortex SPARC II - $139.99 – 5.9 oz

    Aero Precision BCG - $125.00 – 11.5 oz

    Magpul AFG-2 - $29.95 – 2.5 oz

    Magpul MOE+ grip - $14.99 – 3.4 oz

    BCM GUNFIGHTER large latch ambi charging handle - $69.99 - "oz

    Magpul ACS Carbine stock FDE - $65.99 – 14.08 oz

    Aero Precision buffer kit $29.99 – 9.8 oz

    Spike's Tactical Lower Parts Kit with Single Stage Trigger - $71.96 –? oz

    Magpul MOE Polymer Trigger Guard FDE - $8.50 –? oz

    Lower Reciever (already own) – 8.35 oz

    Magpul MBUS Gen 2 Flip-Up Front and Rear Sight Set FDE - $93.00 – 2.5 oz



    Price - $1,114.35

    Weight – approx. 116.07 oz – 7.25 lb

    I could shave off about 8 oz if I went with the pencil barrel version of that upper. I believe the biggest issue with those is heat, but extended firefights where enough ammo is used for that to be a problem are rare.
    If your trying to get as light as possible yet still effective, and don't mind spending a little extra for the parts, there's probably a few things you can do...

    IMO, it would get built as a braced pistol, using a shorter bbl and shorter/slimmer handguard. as suggested on prior posts, either a short (6-8") 300BO, or 5.56 somewhere around 10.5-12.5"

    Personally, not a fan of that stock (there are many better ones avaliable), and the pistol route limits you to a good brace (no stock unless 16", or
    14.5 w/ 1.5" pinned MD). SBA3 is prob one of the lightest, but the SBM4 is very nice as well and totally up for a buttstock to the face should the need arise.

    You can also get lightweight versions of nearly all small parts - titanium pins, fcg parts, etc. Battle Arms and V Seven are good places to start for lightweight parts.

    Finally, based on your list, the afg2 is a bit chubby, might be worth looking at aomething like the magpul mlok handstop kit. very nice, very light...

    Also, I actually prefer to use brakes simply because a.) most qd supressor mounts are either brakes or pronged flashhiders, and b.) brakes are far less prone to snagging. If not planning to go supressed, a kak (or similar) linear comp would likely be ideal for weight & blast management, and will also help add backpressure for enhanced reliability of the action.
     

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    After doing a LOT of looking, and basically redesigning the build multiple times, I managed to bring the weight down to where I want it WITH the accessories. The gun also somehow ended up being cheaper too. I'm going to be better off building the upper myself (I have an upper receiver lying around somewhere that I can build off of)

    SIGHTS


    Magpul MBUS front sight – $26.99 – 1.2 oz

    Magpul MBUS rear sight - $38.99 – 1.3 oz

    Vortex SPARC II - $139.99 – 5.9 oz


    ($205.97, 8.4 oz)


    UPPER


    Seekins Precision AR-15 NOXs 12" Handguard - M-LOK - $160.00 – 8 oz

    Ballistic Advantage 12.5" 5.56 Carbine Length AR 15 Barrel, Modern Series - $150 – 22 oz

    Magpul AFG-2 - $29.95 – 2.5 oz

    BCM GUNFIGHTER med latch - $39.99 - ? oz

    CMMG Low Profile Set Screw Gas Block - .750" - $39.95 - ? oz

    Spike’s Tactical Melonited Gas Tube - Carbine Length - $14.40 - ? oz

    Midwest Industries AR-15 Flash Hider / Impact Device - 1/2x28 - $29.95 – 2.5 oz


    ($464.24, 35 oz)


    LOWER


    Magpul MOE+ grip - $14.99 – 3.4 oz

    Spike's Tactical Lower Parts Kit with Single Stage Trigger - $71.96 – ? oz

    Magpul MOE Polymer Trigger Guard - $8.50 – ? oz

    Lower Reciever – 8.35 oz

    Aero Precision buffer kit $29.99 – 9.8 oz

    Mission First Tactical BATTLELINK - $49.99 – 5.8 oz


    ($175.43, 27.35 oz)


    ASSESSORIES


    Magpul M-LOK QD Sling Mount - $15.95 – 0.5 oz

    Magpul MS4 Dual QD Sling GEN2 – Black - $46.99 - ? oz

    Streamlight ProTac Rail Mount HL-X 1000 Lumen Weapon Light with Tapeswitch – $109.99 – 6.4 oz

    Magpul M-LOK AFG-2 Adapter Rail - $8.55 - ? oz

    Magpul M-LOK Aluminum Rail Section - 5 Slot - $13.50 - ? oz


    ($194.98, 6.9 oz)


    TOOLS


    Wheeler Delta Series AR Combo Tool With Torque Wrench - $39.99


    Guessed weight – 18 oz


    Cost – $1080.61

    Weight – 95.65 oz – 5.97 lb
     

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
    Rating - 100%
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    If your trying to get as light as possible yet still effective, and don't mind spending a little extra for the parts, there's probably a few things you can do...

    IMO, it would get built as a braced pistol, using a shorter bbl and shorter/slimmer handguard. as suggested on prior posts, either a short (6-8") 300BO, or 5.56 somewhere around 10.5-12.5"

    Personally, not a fan of that stock (there are many better ones avaliable), and the pistol route limits you to a good brace (no stock unless 16", or
    14.5 w/ 1.5" pinned MD). SBA3 is prob one of the lightest, but the SBM4 is very nice as well and totally up for a buttstock to the face should the need arise.

    You can also get lightweight versions of nearly all small parts - titanium pins, fcg parts, etc. Battle Arms and V Seven are good places to start for lightweight parts.

    Finally, based on your list, the afg2 is a bit chubby, might be worth looking at aomething like the magpul mlok handstop kit. very nice, very light...

    Also, I actually prefer to use brakes simply because a.) most qd supressor mounts are either brakes or pronged flashhiders, and b.) brakes are far less prone to snagging. If not planning to go supressed, a kak (or similar) linear comp would likely be ideal for weight & blast management, and will also help add backpressure for enhanced reliability of the action.

    I think I'm going to forego the pistol route and just pay the $200 tax. The build is going to end up being a lot cheaper than I had though, so might as well go all the way with it. I'll have to look into the handstop kit and the linear comp.

    I like the looks of this. https://www.kawvalleyprecision.com/KVP-Linear-Compensator-p/kvp-linear-blk.htm
     
    Last edited:

    Big Green

    In Christ Alone
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    @Maverick44

    Curious question, why the concern about weight? Neither of the two roles you mentioned for this rifle are would entail you carrying this rifle for long periods of time. You mentioned starting a new LEO career so I assume you’re on younger side, if so, weight shouldn’t be that big of a deal. I personally like a little weight in my rifles.

    SBR is nice but is that couple of inches worth the money or weight savings? (I have a suppressed SBR AR which I like, bought for fun)

    Also, have you tried and ambi charging handle? I used to run the BCMs but reallly like the ambis.
     

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    @Maverick44

    Curious question, why the concern about weight? Neither of the two roles you mentioned for this rifle are would entail you carrying this rifle for long periods of time. You mentioned starting a new LEO career so I assume you’re on younger side, if so, weight shouldn’t be that big of a deal. I personally like a little weight in my rifles.

    SBR is nice but is that couple of inches worth the money or weight savings? (I have a suppressed SBR AR which I like, bought for fun)

    Also, have you tried and ambi charging handle? I used to run the BCMs but reallly like the ambis.

    Well SHTF could entail carrying the gun for extended periods of time, but there are two main reasons why I want to keep the gun light. I feel it would give a slight advantage in a combat situation where you might have to shoot and scoot fast. The other reason is because I made the mistake of not paying attention to weight during my first build several years ago and ended up with a 9-10 pound rifle (empty). This new build is not a featherweight either (it will be about 7 pounds loaded), but it is a much more reasonable weight than 10 pounds. Setting a weight goal made me keep it reasonably light.

    As for the SBR part of the build, the weight savings were an added benefit but were not the goal. Maneuverability was. A 12.5" barrel is far easier to move around in an enclosed area than a 16.25" barrel. Collapse the stock, and you have a tight little package.

    The cost is worth it to me, and I was able to keep it pretty low too, even with the $200 tax.

    I have not tried an Ambi. I have a BCM med latch on my other AR, and I like it a lot. BCM offers an Ambi but it's twice the price. I"ll probably look into so one others. It's been 5-6 years since I've built an AR, so there's a lot of new names and products out there I'm having to look through to see what's good.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    EZ-E

    King Turd of Shit Mountain
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    The barrel, BCG & trigger IMO are the most important parts to spend money on. The extra $$ you save on the hand guard put into a good trigger. A single or double stage is up to you. I prefer a single stage with very little creep & crisp break.

    Lowers it's up to you...Anderson's for $40 all the up to $400+ custom milled. My latest AR9 pistol build has a Anderson lower & seems no different than my Spikes Spider lower from my last build.

    Good luck in your build
     

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
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    For hand guards check out ALG... its Geissele's wifes company. They are light weight & under $150

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...ail-free-float-handguard-ar-15-aluminum-black

    The barrel, BCG & trigger IMO are the most important parts to spend money on. The extra $$ you save on the hand guard put into a good trigger. A single or double stage is up to you. I prefer a single stage with very little creep & crisp break.

    Lowers it's up to you...Anderson's for $40 all the up to $400+ custom milled. My latest AR9 pistol build has a Anderson lower & seems no different than my Spikes Spider lower from my last build.

    Good luck in your build

    It is interesting that you brought up ALG. I just discovered them today and decided to go with one of their triggers. You're tempting me with the handguard.

    The barrel is from Balistic Advantage, who I believe makes Aero Precision's barrels too. From what I've seen, they are good quality and are far more accurate than necessary for an SBR. The BCG is from Aero Precision.

    I already have the receivers. They're both from Spike's.
     

    Maverick44

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    I have a buddy who built a 4.7 lb 16” rifle for under $1300. It’s ridiculous how light it feels compared to a standard AR.

    It's insane that you can get a gun that large to be that light. With mine, I'm constantly going back and forth between weight, durability, reliability, and utility. There are certain things I'm willing to compromise, and others like the BCG that I won't change due to reliability concerns (I've seen lightened bolts that looks like they've had chunks taken out of them. I'll stick to a full auto BCG.)
     

    Maverick44

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    Ok, after doing a lot more thinking, searching, ect. I have revised the parts list again. After thinking about the Battlelink stock and reading a lot of reviews on it, I came to the conclusion that it would just get hung up on gear constantly. It seems the main thing it had going for it was that it was light weight. I added a linear comp to the list, and traded out the BCM charging handle for a Geissele one that is stupidly expensive, but is worth it from what I've read. It's ambidextrous, is less prone to snagging on gear and popping the bolt out of battery, and is supposedly so smooth that you'd never want to use anything else. I went with the ALG QMS trigger as stated above, and decided to go with a hand stop instead of an AFG. I am contemplating getting a heavy buffer and a JP buffer spring, but I'll probably wait and see if the stock Aero Precision buffer works fine.

    SIGHTS


    Magpul MBUS front sight – $26.99 – 1.2 oz

    Magpul MBUS rear sight - $38.99 – 1.3 oz

    Vortex SPARC II - $139.99 – 5.9 oz


    ($205.97, 8.4 oz)


    UPPER


    Assembled upper – 8.3 oz

    Seekins Precision AR-15 NOXs 12" Handguard - M-LOK - $160.00 – 8 oz

    Ballistic Advantage 12.5" 5.56 Carbine Length AR 15 Barrel, Modern Series - $150 – 22 oz

    CMMG Low Profile Set Screw Gas Block - .750" - $39.95 - ~1.2 oz

    Spike’s Tactical Melonited Gas Tube - Carbine Length - $14.40 - ~1 oz

    KVP Linear Comp - 1/2x28 - $54.95 – 2.5 oz

    Geissele Super Charging Handle – Black - $89.00 – 1.5 oz

    Magpul M-LOK Handstop Kit – Black - $19.95 - ~2 oz


    ($528.25, 46.5 oz)


    LOWER


    Magpul MOE+ grip - $14.99 – 3.4 oz

    ALG Defense Quality Mil-Spec Trigger - QMS - $49.00 – ~1.5 oz

    CMMG AR-15 Lower Parts Kit - No Grip/FCG - $39.95 – 1 oz

    Magpul MOE Polymer Trigger Guard - $8.50 – ~0.2 oz

    Lower Reciever – 8.35 oz

    Spike's Tactical ST-T2 Tungsten Heavy Buffer - $34.16 – 4 oz

    Aero Precision AR-15 Carbine Buffer Kit - MIL-SPEC - $39.99 – 6.8 oz

    Magpul MOE Slim Line Carbine Stock - $43.99 – 9.6 oz

    JP Enterprises Custom Buffer Spring - Centerless Ground and Polished – Carbine - $18.95 – ~2 oz


    ($249.53, 36.85 oz)


    ASSESSORIES


    Magpul M-LOK QD Sling Mount - $15.95 – 0.5 oz

    Magpul MS4 Dual QD Sling GEN2 – Black - $46.99 - ~7 oz

    Streamlight ProTac Rail Mount HL-X 1000 Lumen Weapon Light with Tapeswitch – $109.99 – 6.4 oz

    Magpul M-LOK Aluminum Rail Section - 5 Slot - $13.50 - ~1 oz


    ($186.43, 14.9 oz)


    TOOLS


    Wheeler Delta Series AR Combo Tool With Torque Wrench - $39.99


    Cost – $1,170.18 (+39.99)

    Weight – 106.65 oz – 6.67 lb
     

    Big Green

    In Christ Alone
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    ALG makes good gear. I have several of their handguards waiting to be installed. (Black Friday year before last had great sales.) I’m also a big fan of Geissele and have most of his triggers, still haven’t pulled the trigger on his rails or CH but just need the right build for them, probably coming soon.

    My absolute favorite rail is the FFSSR made by Parallax Tactical. At the end it’s quads but it’s skinny in the middle and they make them in AR-15 & 10 flavors.

    Any thoughts on stock now?
     
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

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