HEB an 30.07

[DubiousDan]

So this is the English 30.07 sign at my HEB. If you bend down and find just the right angle between the shelves and the magazines, you might be able to read nearly half it.

Is it visible from the outside? That is what should matter.

 

[Savage20]

I believe those racks are on the outside. My HEB likes to stack shit outside the front door also.

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[Dash Riprock]

Is it visible from the outside? That is what should matter.

That is from the outside. You literally can't see the notice unless you bend down and peer through the rack.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I saw it mentioned in one of these open carry threads that houston pd is saying drop leg holsters are ok because they connect to the belt. Killeen pd is saying the opposite.

http://kdhnews.com/news/local/kille...31a-aeb3-11e5-99d9-e7966d2dbf31.html?mode=jqm

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[Savage20]

Yes, I saw it on video with HPD Chief and HarrisCo DA that if it (a drop-leg holster) attaches to the belt, it is a belt holster.

 

[Mreed911]

I saw it mentioned in one of these open carry threads that houston pd is saying drop leg holsters are ok because they connect to the belt. Killeen pd is saying the opposite.

http://kdhnews.com/news/local/kille...31a-aeb3-11e5-99d9-e7966d2dbf31.html?mode=jqm

Yep. That's likely going to take a court to resolve (unless someone requests an AG opinion on the definition).

 

[London]

Can't wait to see all the arrests that result of these poorly placed signs. But HEB is still trying to appease both sides, right?

 

[London]

Finally remembered to check my HEB for a 30.07 today and sure enough, it's there on the bottom portion of the outside (stationary) glass of the sliding door. Looked just like the one pictured earlier in the thread except that my HEB had even more crap stacked in front of the door, so much so that I had to really stop and bend down at a weird angle to see the English side (Spanish was on the left panel, English on the right). Plus it was among a bunch of other verbiage (hours, the TABC stuff, various other notices that I can't recall) and they were all in barely contrasting letters directly on the glass, not on a separately printed sign. There would be almost no way anyone who was unaware of the 30.07 posting or who wasn't specifically looking for it like I was would notice it. I seriously wondered if they did that intentionally to maybe give an open carrier a defense should he or she get arrested. It was that obscure.

We'll see what happens. Hopefully after the hoopla dies down in the next few months they'll quietly send out somebody with a scraper one night and be done with it.

If the sign wasn't there, no defense would be needed.

 

[zincwarrior]

Can't wait to see all the arrests that result of these poorly placed signs. But HEB is still trying to appease both sides, right?

I think thats accurate actually. The effective illegality of the sign will be brought to their attention the first time the PoPo is called (or after by the defendant's attorney). Frankly just because they put a sign up doesn't mean that they couldn't politely reaffirm with verbal notice if someone did OC in, and then only call the police if the person didn't leave.

 

[roadkill]

Can't wait to see all the arrests that result of these poorly placed signs. But HEB is still trying to appease both sides, right?

Was thinking about that this morning. If HEB will be courteous and give verbal notice also before calling the law then no harm. Now if the manager is of the opinion the store is posted and notice given and they don't confront for verbal notice but rather call the law and an arrest is made would that open the store up to some kind of law suit? There are numerous pics here and elsewhere showing obscured signs as well as referencing not all entrances being posted. I can't help but think some lawyer would see $$$$ in the way their client was treated.


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[Mreed911]

Was thinking about that this morning. If HEB will be courteous and give verbal notice also before calling the law then no harm. Now if the manager is of the opinion the store is posted and notice given and they don't confront for verbal notice but rather call the law and an arrest is made would that open the store up to some kind of law suit? There are numerous pics here and elsewhere showing obscured signs as well as referencing not all entrances being posted. I can't help but think some lawyer would see $$$$ in the way their client was treated.

Normally I'm in the "don't call attention to wrong signage" crowd, but in this case, it might make sense to send pictures of obscured signs to HEB's legal/risk management department. A friendly call to the regional director wouldn't hurt, either.

If they're at risk of civil suit for improper sign placement, they'll have to weigh that risk against actually placing the signs in the first place.

 

[Mreed911]

I saw it mentioned in one of these open carry threads that houston pd is saying drop leg holsters are ok because they connect to the belt. Killeen pd is saying the opposite.

http://kdhnews.com/news/local/kille...31a-aeb3-11e5-99d9-e7966d2dbf31.html?mode=jqm

Just FYI, I really respect the Chief's statement in that article. Basically, he doesn't agree with the need for OC but recognizes it's the law, that he must uphold it, and in the video urges people NOT for carry to NOT interfere with the carry of others (inferring that they'll protect the rights of OC'ers from harassment, etc.). I don't agree with him, but I'm glad to see his stance on "it's the law and it's my job to uphold it."

 

[Dash Riprock]

Normally I'm in the "don't call attention to wrong signage" crowd, but in this case, it might make sense to send pictures of obscured signs to HEB's legal/risk management department. A friendly call to the regional director wouldn't hurt, either.

If they're at risk of civil suit for improper sign placement, they'll have to weigh that risk against actually placing the signs in the first place.

I hear you, but I'd probably say take a "wait and see" approach. This isn't like that goofy Whole Foods sign, where it doesn't quite fit what we've come to know as an enforceable 30.06 (and now 30.07). I can't see even a Travis County jury finding this HEB sign "conspicuous" and therefore, I can't imagine it's enforceable. As I speculated earlier, HEB might be doing this intentionally to give people an "out" if they happen to get arrested. If we force them to put up a glowing neon sign, then they won't have that option.

In any event, we don't really know how zealous store management or the police are going to be about OC. Hopefully everybody will just say "sir, please cover your weapon or leave" and we'll all go about our business.

 

[Mreed911]

I hear you, but I'd probably say take a "wait and see" approach. This isn't like that goofy Whole Foods sign, where it doesn't quite fit what we've come to know as an enforceable 30.06 (and now 30.07). I can't see even a Travis County jury finding this HEB sign "conspicuous" and therefore, I can't imagine it's enforceable. As I speculated earlier, HEB might be doing this intentionally to give people an "out" if they happen to get arrested. If we force them to put up a glowing neon sign, then they won't have that option.

In any event, we don't really know how zealous store management or the police are going to be about OC. Hopefully everybody will just say "sir, please cover your weapon or leave" and we'll all go about our business.

I won't have to worry since my dollars will be moving from HEB to Wal-Mart and others.

I'd strongly encourage every other person who can to do so as well... and let HEB know (politely) that you're doing so.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

The HEB "30.07 sign obscured" keeps recurring.

I wonder why?

 

[MikePotts]

My local HEB has three entrances/exits along it's front. 30-07's at both ends but not in the middle.

 

[Charlie]

My local HEB has three entrances/exits along it's front. 30-07's at both ends but not in the middle.

Yeah, but you probably couldn't read them in the center door anyway because of the exit crowd and all the stuff they have in front of the windows.

 

[roadkill]

He problem means it's like the one we shop at it. 3 entrances. The two on the ends are posted. The entrance in the middle of the store is not.


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[London]

Was thinking about that this morning. If HEB will be courteous and give verbal notice also before calling the law then no harm. Now if the manager is of the opinion the store is posted and notice given and they don't confront for verbal notice but rather call the law and an arrest is made would that open the store up to some kind of law suit? There are numerous pics here and elsewhere showing obscured signs as well as referencing not all entrances being posted. I can't help but think some lawyer would see $$$$ in the way their client was treated.


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Here's my point: Too many people here are saying HEB is trying to please both pro-gunners and anti-gunners. The reality is they adopted a policy which makes only ONE of those groups arrestable. You guys who are still trying to justify their actions are in denial. They took an anti-gun position that is most likely going to screw over undeserving people who didn't see their poorly placed signs. Deal with it.

All this talk about "Leaving people a legal out in court" and civil penalties is nonsense. By the time a defendant is done with jail and hiring a lawyer he will probably be emotionally and financially broken to the point that continuing is unbearable, especially when taking on a huge corporation with a small army of salaried corporate lawyers. This isn't going to be an episode of Judge Judy where the guy in the wrong almost always loses.

And as I already pointed out, without those signs there would be no need for a court date. Are some of you seriously proposing these problematic signs are their own solution? Is that supposed to make everything okay after arrests have been made, vehicles have been towed, jobs lost, and arrest records created? Go ahead and try to get a good job with a weapons arrest on your record. See how easy it is.

I have no idea why everytime some beloved Texas franchise takes an anti-gun position, people start coming up with the most absurd justifications on their behalf. It's like that dude who said Whataburger was bending over backwards for gun owners when they didn't place 30.06 signs to accompany their policy of banning guns in their restaurants. No, that isn't bending over backwards for gun owners. Bending over backwards for gun owners looks like this:

http://www.eater.com/2015/10/26/961...-roux-indiana-concealed-carry-permit-firearms

Not this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWtLx-fUEAAMghj.jpg

Understand the difference?

The only "Bending over backwards" I'm seeing is part of the mental gymnastics some of you guys are exercising in your attempt to, for reasons I can't understand, make this situation seem much friendlier than it is. I can only guess this is being done to have to avoid confronting the fact that places you like to spend money at aren't as fond of you as you are of them.

HEB, Whataburger, BWW, and pretty much every mall in the state have taken ANTI-GUN policies. They have at best aided the anti-gun culture war, and at worst set up good people for arrest over malum prohibitum or even made their businesses targets for homicidal psychotics. Those are the facts. The sooner you accept them the better off you will be.

 

[zincwarrior]

Anti-OC, not anti-gun. You may think they are the same. Others disagree.